---Tape on my wheel wells----

[Pu241]

John I agree 100%, but they were talking about removing the alt BELT, not just removing the circuit from the vehicles electrical system. I like Crazyrog's idea but thats way over my head electronically. I'm great with internal combustion, in/lbs, suspension geometry... with picofarads, micro-controllers and rheostats,* not so much


* I just put those words there because they are electrical in nature, I do not know what they mean :lol:

I understand that they wanted to remove the ALT and belt completely. And I would agree it would give max results. But, I also know that I will one day/night forget to charge the batteries and then I'm screwed. So I like the idea of an electronic cut out. It give less improvement in MPG, but I have a backup in case stupidity strikes. Also, it really wouldn't be that hard to do as you only have to install a switch in-line to the wire that feeds power to the field windings. I'm sure we could figure it out via the wiring diagrams or Festyboy seems to have a very good knowledge of this subsystem, having wired a 323 ALT to run in an '88 festiva. I pretty sure the switch wouldn't even have to be a high power one as the power required by the field winding should be that high. Meaning the switch needs to be good quality but shouldn't be too expensive. Maybe could even use a spare defrost switch and put it in the cluster surround for a nice clean install.

Not be dissagreeable.......but a few guys on ecomodder.com found that you get the biggest (like double) the savings when you completely bypass the alternator, not just electronically. And since it would be pretty easy to do in the festiva.....I will do it that way, and just find a belt that fits between the water pump pully and the other one......

Yes, I've likely read the same thread. But lets look at what was done a little closer. IIRC, the initial test was using a Metro and he(MetroMPG) did record a nice bump in MPG. But, the Metro has a smaller engine so the drain of the electrical system is, as a percentage of output, larger. Given that both the Festiva and Metro will require similar electrical demands (headlights, turn signals, etc are similar between the two cars). So I'd expect you wouldn't see the same increase in MPG that he did. That said, I'd still try it. My concern with removing the ALT belt completely, is that finding a belt that fits correctly even after "break in" and the associated stretching might be hard. Unless you can find some means of tensioning it. If you lose the belt and do not see the resultant rise in head temp, you will warp the head and the cost of reworking the head will negate all of the MPG gains.

Also for everyone else's edification look at the link below that Darlo and I have been using as a reference, it is pretty well detailed.

http://www.metrompg.com/posts/alternator-optional.htm

[Pu241]

i thought botu a alt cutout switch and pulse and glide. but i did the pulse and glide one night and the shock to the alt burned out the regulator and alt

Well, if I interpret your "language" correctly, you attribute your ALT failure to restarting the engine, via dropping the clutch while the vehicle was still moving.
That's complete non-sense!
Your regulator or the ALT itself was already compromised in some way.
I have been doing the pulse and glide down large hills/mountains day and night when I deem it safe to do so for years (likely 100's of thousands of miles at this point). And I have as yet to see premature ALT/regulator failures. To be sure I have lost a few over the decades, but 150 to 200,000 miles for and ALT is not a premature failure.

[htchbck]

My concern with removing the ALT belt completely, is that finding a belt that fits correctly even after "break in" and the associated stretching might be hard. Unless you can find some means of tensioning it. If you lose the belt and do not see the resultant rise in head temp, you will warp the head and the cost of reworking the head will negate all of the MPG gains.

Hmmm... probably could mod a spare AC tensioner bracket to put the pulley inline with the WP pulley. Tensioning problem solved Since most of the MPG modders wouldn't have AC on their car anyway, and some probably still have the tensioner laying around from the removal of the AC components, someone should try this. If I hadn't given my spare tensioner assembly to Paul I'd try fabbing one up myself. At any rate, if you did that, and weren't TOO concerned about the extra 5 pounds or so that the Alt weighs, you could leave the alt in place and keep the correct length belt for it in the trunk... just in case John

[MonkeyGein]

Well, if I interpret your "language" correctly, you attribute your ALT failure to restarting the engine, via dropping the clutch while the vehicle was still moving.
That's complete non-sense!
Your regulator or the ALT itself was already compromised in some way.
I have been doing the pulse and glide down large hills/mountains day and night when I deem it safe to do so for years (likely 100's of thousands of miles at this point). And I have as yet to see premature ALT/regulator failures. To be sure I have lost a few over the decades, but 150 to 200,000 miles for and ALT is not a premature failure.

i don't disagree, it coulda been on it's way out too. i was doing it alot. i use my festi right now to do a paper route and was doing it alot. i did it on hills and when pulling up to custs and stops, o i was surging alot with load on the battery too. i had lights and radio going, so it would drain a bit, surge then recharge a bit, then drain again.... rinse, lather, repeat.... i also blew a few fuses with the surge.

so it coulda been a combo of the two things

[Darlo]

haha sounds to me that there is/was a bit more going on than the pulse and glide, as there is no way it alone is causing these issues (blown fuses and alternators, etc)......

For the water pump, is there a lot of resistance on the pully from just having it alone hooked up? My point is, is it dumb to think I could just measure and find a pully that is super hard to get on, needs no tensioning, yet still is sufficient for the water pump?

[FestYboy]

water pump doesn't need alot of tention to run properly, you should be able to get away with a tight belt (when new).

[Pu241]

Hmmm... probably could mod a spare AC tensioner bracket to put the pulley inline with the WP pulley. Tensioning problem solved Since most of the MPG modders wouldn't have AC on their car anyway, and some probably still have the tensioner laying around from the removal of the AC components, someone should try this. If I hadn't given my spare tensioner assembly to Paul I'd try fabbing one up myself. At any rate, if you did that, and weren't TOO concerned about the extra 5 pounds or so that the Alt weighs, you could leave the alt in place and keep the correct length belt for it in the trunk... just in case John

That's why we have this forum!

Me likes this idea!

I might be able to find you one, if your interested.

Price?

Document the mod and install and I'll pay to ship it too you.

Think I'll just stick with the ALT cut out, but I like to see different options being tested.

[Pu241]

water pump doesn't need alot of tention to run properly, you should be able to get away with a tight belt (when new).

I think your right about a new one, but a water pump with a lot of miles could be much harder to turn.
If you check out the link I posted above to MetroMPG's write up on Ecomodder.com you see where he fabed up his own belts from inter-tubes and samples then moved on to the more durable bungee cords and dental floss.
So I'm inclined to believe the belt may NOT have to be supper tight and may still work well after the break-in period.
But, as I said above, I think the ALT cut-off switch is the better route for me.

[htchbck]

I doubt it would take much tension to run the pump, I'd be more worried about what you first mentioned, that once the belt stretches it may pop off! We had that happen enough on the wife's Fiero (I guess GM thought it was cool to have about two foot of run between pulleys running a 13 series belt :razz. I will look at the tensioner on my B3 tomorrow and see how easy it looks to mod. I actually have a spare bracket that I can mod if its doable, but I don't have any extras of the pieces. I'll try it though while I have the B3 out And I'll take lots of pics

[MonkeyGein]

gut the alt out to just the shaft and bearings

[FestYboy]

and what does that do for you...? besides put you in a bad spot when your battery dies.

[Darlo]

No I really like that idea!!!! I will fine one that is dead and open it up (if that is easy, lol) and so it will be JUST a tensioner!

I LIKE IT! :sunny:

[FestYboy]

just take a spare battery with you...

[MonkeyGein]

well, how long does a deep cycle last?

[Ghost]

did taping the wheel well help?

you should tape all the other body lines as well like they do in the texas mile to reduce drag. add a home depot lip, skid plate, windsheild wiper delete,

and install a 2011 focus grill