manual belts available

[bravekozak]

These are handed assemblies with retractors. That is why there are rights and lefts.

[Twistiva]

whew! what a relief.

Ha! Ha! Do I sense sarcasm there?

I will say that to me, the Ford part number matters because of the seven manual seatbelt "pieces" I have 6 of them....everything but the driver's 3-point seatbelt. Don't want to start over and buy everything in "Kia", especially since you said that you can't change front seat Kia and Ford seatbelts since the males are too wide. I'd rather keep searching for an original Festiva driver seatbelt in brown in good condition. If you find one at a JY, pls let me know!

Cheers!

[Twistiva]

These are handed assemblies with retractors. That is why there are rights and lefts.

What?...

Pls explain. Why does it matter if each assembly has a reeled retractor? Won't they work the same if they're installed on the driver or passenger side?

[bravekozak]

Help me somebody! Now I'm just as confused as you are. I have an extra set in the basement. I will check tomorrow.

[Twistiva]

Help me somebody! Now I'm just as confused as you are. I have an extra set in the basement. I will check tomorrow.

OK, standing by....

[F3BZ]

don't quote me on this but i am ASSuming that the gravity locking mechanism in the belt spool has to be facing in a certain direction if it's going to lock the belts in a forceful deceleration. Twistiva, i think by law or fear of lawsuit they have to give you the comlete U-shaped center section to maintain the system integrity. so if you do find another new drivers side belt, well then you'll have 2 center sections. the ford parts diagram shows seperate stalks but (once again) i think that's because ford scabbed most of their parts diagrams from the Mazda 121 book and (yes i continue to think) the 121 had seperate stalks. i am going to try to post up a page from someplace called (much, much thinking) Parts International who had an NOS gray drivers belt and their price for it was (i know) over $400.

[bravekozak]

Thanks for coming to my r
escue FB!
I believe you are correct regarding the inertial clutch mechanism built into the retractor housing. That is why they are stamped at the factory, so as to prevent improper orientation resulting in lack of functionality.

Confucius say:"Man who installs RH seatbelt retractor on LH side, first pay visit to hospital and later to Speedy Auto Glass"

I don't think we had pretensioners like the newer seat belts.

A tragic lack of restraint.

[Twistiva]

don't quote me on this but i am ASSuming that the gravity locking mechanism in the belt spool has to be facing in a certain direction if it's going to lock the belts in a forceful deceleration. Twistiva, i think by law or fear of lawsuit they have to give you the comlete U-shaped center section to maintain the system integrity. so if you do find another new drivers side belt, well then you'll have 2 center sections. the ford parts diagram shows seperate stalks but (once again) i think that's because ford scabbed most of their parts diagrams from the Mazda 121 book and (yes i continue to think) the 121 had seperate stalks. i am going to try to post up a page from someplace called (much, much thinking) Parts International who had an NOS gray drivers belt and their price for it was (i know) over $400.

Gravity/deceleration.....hmmm.....maybe, but what about the fact that the front seat seatbelts work in instances of instant decelaration from all sides?....accidents from the front, rear and sides? Not saying you're wrong, just don't understand it yet.

$400?!?!?!!?

I continue to look for a driver's manual seatbelt in brown in good condition. In the last 10 days I bought all 4 rear seat seatbelts (2-point style) in surprisingly good shape from a JY for about $50. Those, combined with a purchase of rear seat seatbelts from Chobolulous (sp?) should yield one good set for the backseat.

Good grief....what are we all going to do for parts 5-10 yrs from now?....

(Edit....I wrote my post before Brave submitted his. I concede....gotta be separate L/R seatbelts. Good to know because I might have used 2 'Lefts' and got myself killed and that would NOT be cool.....)

[F3BZ]

as stated, i was assuming a deceleration activated lock as a plausible explanation for dedicated left and right belts but i am genuinely intrigued by your proposal that seatbelt locking mechanisms activate in side and rear end collisions. i can't see the logic in that especially with respect to rear end collisions unless government mandated. i'll admit that a seatbelt spool that i have removed and rotated and turned by hand seems to lock up in many positions, but as for that being a fact, i never heard of that till now. not that i don't believe you but now i'm driven to do some research on seat belt requirements.

[F3BZ]

while you were out hunting eggs, i looked up the DOT standard 209 (EVERYTHING you wanted to know about seatbelts). my head hurts as usual when reading gov't stuff but the gist is that an auto locking retractor shall NOT lock at <15 degrees from normally installed position. more recent standards were put into effect for 2007 but that had to do mainly with the belts locking at >45 degrees. sooo, YES, if you can accelerate your festiva backwards hard enough to do a wheelstand over 15 degrees, or corner visciously enough to tilt the car over 15 degrees, then the belts SHOULD LOCK. i'd still like to find a very steep hill and see if the belts lock facing upwards and downwards.

[Twistiva]

while you were out hunting eggs, i looked up the DOT standard 209 (EVERYTHING you wanted to know about seatbelts). my head hurts as usual when reading gov't stuff but the gist is that an auto locking retractor shall NOT lock at <15 degrees from normally installed position. more recent standards were put into effect for 2007 but that had to do mainly with the belts locking at >45 degrees. sooo, YES, if you can accelerate your festiva backwards hard enough to do a wheelstand over 15 degrees, or corner visciously enough to tilt the car over 15 degrees, then the belts SHOULD LOCK. i'd still like to find a very steep hill and see if the belts lock facing upwards and downwards.

F3BZ -

Ha! Ha! Not hunting Easter eggs....I leave that to my 9 yr old daughter. Been sitting here on FF.com and thinking about taking a peaceful Sunday afternoon nap.

Anyway.....what does the > 15 degrees = seatbelts will lock have to do with seatbelts are dedicated for the L/R position? Not a criticism, just a question.

Now pardon me while I steal a piece of candy from my 9 yr old's basket and take a snooze!...nthego:

[Safety Guy]

I just read BK's link titled "a tragic lack of restraint." Here is the link:

http://www.dogandlemon.com/articles/tragic-lack-restraint

Everyone needs to read it!

Apparently, our inertia reel belt mechanisms are "real old tech" and an improved system, called a "webbing grabber seatbelt" exists. I never knew about these.

Festivas and Aspires have inertia reels. They unwind too much in hard crashes due to the wound up portion stretching out on the reel as it tightens, which goes beyond the normal stretching of the belt material. You'll fly forward too far with all this stretching. Webbing grabbers get rid of the reel tightening stretch, which improves upon restraint.

As for our seatbelt reels, they are "passenger sensitive" and should work at any angle or either side. I'm not worried about that. If they lock when you tug on them, they work as designed. But as noted above, they are not the best we have.

Back in 2001, Mutt's driver side belt reel stopped retracting and I replaced it with a new Ford part. The left side reel came with the center latches. I had my right side reel redone by Seatbeltplanet, who rewebbed it and checked operation.

After reading "a tragic lack of restraint," however, I'm rethinking all this.

It may be simplest and best to go for generic replacement belts that don't retract. You older folks know--they are "fixed" belts like in real old cars--cars from the early seventies and before. Usually, they used two belts: one for the shoulder and one for the lap. You had two to buckle up! I remember my family's Hornet Sportabout wagon and the little wire clip above the B pillar area to hold the loose belt out of the way. In other words, "inconvenient."

So I'm thinking that four point racing harnesses may be best. If you have to buckle fixe, nonretracting belts, may as well get superior ones. However, racing belt attachments come with their own set of problems. You have to do it right and know what you're doing.

There IS one thing we can do now, which I used to do all the time, which is also why I preferred "passenger sensitive" belts that locked when you tugged on them. Get in, fasten your seatbelt, pull it tight around your waist and then tug it to lock it. That way you're already locked in place as you drive. If a crash occurs, you're already locked. Only the belt will stretch, and yes--the belt around the reel will stretch a bit too, but since the belt is already tight and locked, this will reduce the effects.

I'll probably start locking my belts again now. as I keep rethinking what to do about all our old, out of date seatbelts and their design.

Thoughts??

Karl

[bravekozak]

This may sound dumb, but I was swinging my extra set of manual belts hard in both directions while feeling when they locked. Also sideways. These forums can make anyone paranoid that normally isn't. I did feel them lock but the plastic wrap caused some interference.

[Safety Guy]

When installing them, you just need to make sure they go in right and nothing will stick into the mechanism to jam it.

Karl

[F3BZ]

what got me off on this tangent twist is when you said in this thread that it is a "fact" that SBs' will lock in frontal, side, and rear end collisions. i was skeptical about the side but really befuddled about a rear end collision locking the belts. doesn't seem to have any logic. maybe i'll be the one with egg on my face but from the gov't SB section 209, best i can deduce is that the seat belt will lock let's say if you were hit in the side of your car so violently that your car actually tilted up on 2 wheels over 15 degrees from horizontal. the main requirement though seems to focus on testing the acceleration of the belt being pulled (very quickly by a special 1 million dollar taxpayer purchased belt accelerometer) forward and having to lock at a minimum speed like in a frontal collision. i am very open to any sources you can point me to to prove otherwise.