another lift question?

[quaddawg]

Well, I wasn't trying criticize you for being different. It's just that I can't understand why anyone would want to make thier car handle or perform worse. I guess it's just a curse, I don't understand "rice" or spoilers or wings, or "beating systems" or anything else that doesn't make a car fast, handle better, or do whatever you want to do better... mechanically speaking.. I do understand paint and body work, just so the car doesn't look like total crap... but I am just a car guy, performance wise.

None of my vehicles are stock, but nearly every mod I have invested in makes the vehicle perform better. My offroad vehicles have small lifts, big tires and better suspension, exhaust, etc... to make them run trails better. My DD has intake, exhaust, etc.. to make it run more efficiently. My Festy has lots of stuff to make it faster and handle better. My van and luxury cars have creature comforts to make them more comfortable on trips, etc... My ATV's are lifted, hot rodded and re-tired to make them do off road and mudding better. I just never did understand trends that actually hurt performance, reliability, gas mileage (if that's your thing) just to have a "certain look"

Now, I could sort of understand (just barely) making your festy sit real high IF you were going off road, or maybe even if you were the FIRST to do it, but this new "Donk style" trend is just ridiculous. Dangerous handling, reduced performance, hard on parts.. for what? for looks... ugh... I place it in the same or worse category than pure "winged rice rides" Just pointless.

BUT, I admit, I am not an "artsy" kinda guy, I don't understand trends, fashion or otherwise. I don't understand 25" rims, blinged out rides, bumping systems or anything else like that. That doesn't make me wrong, and it doesn't make you wrong..

You have to admit, all I asked was "WHY" and you told my your "WHY" I don't understand the drive to do it, I was just trying to understand. I don't have anything against you personally, I am sure you are a great guy, especially since you can see the value of a Festiva. but to make a long winded response (I could go on all day) a BIT shorter...

You said:

" want to do something diff. thats what these cars are is different... isnt that why u all hop them up?"

I say.

NO, HELL NO. NO WAY. I don't hop ANYTHING up to be different. I hop things up to make them WORK BETTER.

To me a Festiva is a GREAT automobile. Sure, I like to be different, but the bottom line is that the Festiva is several things to me.

A reliable automobile
An economical automobile
A light, decent handling auto.
A small, manueverable auto.
A capable vehicle
A vehicle that has incredible potential to do it's job better than other cars
A platform to make a nice autocross or road race car, due to it's lightness, stiffness and potential.

I don't fix them up because they are different, I fix them up because they are GOOD. The fact that they are different is just icing on the cake.



NOW, I sort of understand your thinking, since you answered my intial "WHY" and I tried to explain why I asked... it's just my opinion. I am not right or wrong, just as you are not right or wrong.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

[Gomez]

It is not about "understanding why". You don't need to understand. This isn't about everyone else, it is about one persons wanting to do something different without reason or contraditcion. We all do the things we do because we can, plain and simple. The bottom line isn't about performance, looks, value, or anything like that. It is about creating something because we want to PERIOD.

I am sorry I questioned the initial postings on this topic. I was just trying to defend the ideas of one person that just asked a simple question. I really hope we can get back on topic here, forgive and forget, and helpthis guy out before he does gat mad or someone else does. Again I am sorry!!!!!

[Pu241]

Actually, I though everyone has been rather civil!
Things do tend to get out of hand here quickly, but this has been a reasonable conversation!
Of course we kind of shanghaied the thread and never actually provided any useful info pertinent to his question.
So I agree, we need to try and get some useful info to help him in his quest

[Gomez]

On the large suspension lifts everything needs to be lengthened. Also to be considered is the location of the shock. Longer arms create more leverage on the shock . All things being equal the struts and springs will need to be stiffer unless you move them further out. The problem with longer components is when travel goes through the stock height area the tires will stick out farther than original by as much as the arms are longer than stock. You must also consider bump steer. It is the amount of toe-in or out the wheels see in relation to the amount of suspension travel. In or out depends on the geometry of the suspension components themselves i.e. where the tie rod connects to the hub and the distance it must travel before coming to a level point with the arm itself. The rear of the car will definitely be more difficult considering the Festiva design. You may be further ahead to swap an independent suspension set-up from another car unless you are willing to extend the wheel well further back. This is only if you extend the length of the bar itself. Then there are the drive axles. This is a whole different discussion in itself. This is sort of where I will drop out. I am not quite as experienced here and don't want to give the wrong info. All of this considered including the cost, and the amount of labor involved is why most truck guys go with the cheaper, easier, and not as attractive Body lifts. This way you can go as high as you want when you have a frame to keep the suspension in the stock position. On uni-body designs this isn't the case so you would have to fabricate a frame to mount the suspension components to so then you could lift the body. This whole process just may be as labor intensive as the suspension lift. AND it will not looks as attractive because you will see the engine and all under hood components depending on how high you go.

If your goal was only a couple inches or so. It would be easy. BUT if you are "going large"... well ... you know. I say if you have the resources and the funds. GO FOR IT. I am interested in seeing the final pics and the build out pics as well.

There are very many more details that I did not mention including the very important "roll center" and not as complicated camber. There is actually not enough time to discuss the necessary info just by typing at my super slow pace.

I will not divulge where my suspension experience comes from. Let's just say that I know enough to set-up a car quite nicely to handle very well in off-road situations. Geometry is geometry no matter where the info comes from, just as long as you understand the info at hand and how to interpret what is actually happening to the suspension components in relation to one another and how even minute changes effect handling in all situations..

[kewldjboy420]

wow... a simple question gone ary.... i see what yuour saying qdawg but hoo says it wont perform better...performance seems to be in the eye of the beholder...ive had several of these cars and none of them ride worth a crap... esecially when you lower them....i want mine to ride niceer than stock and io believe i will get that from lifting it and rearanging things... secondly.. lets talk performance ... maybe you didnt read the part where i said powered by b6t? this or a bpt would be a vast improvement of PERFORMANCE if you ask me.... as well as the bigger brakes....hmmm seems we just have a different mind about performance... you see ive been riding in lowriders since before they were cool... ive been driving festivas for over ten yrs now...my back hurts... and my ass is sick of boucing around everywheres...maybe you could be a little open minded as to the deffinition of high performance....it means performing highly... at ones best level.....to me performance of my suspension is top priority... finLLY, hoo says paint and wheel dont help function? it serves a purpose... to make your ride look better...one could we build cars to impress others around us and ourselves.. impressive rims and paint serve this purpose ... improves performance of ppl yanking there neck around to see that nice ride that just went by....im sure at one point in time somebody laughed at you for wanting to put a bigger motor and breaks on your car....personally i think you chose the wrong motor and cant believe you didnt go bpt... but its your car... your call.. what i think really shouldnt matter and if you messaged me about your engine swap ide sure as hell help in stead of scoffing at you and preaching the hymes of bpt's.....you kow what never mind you....take your little rally racer/ fast and the furious/wannabe just l;ike everyone else with a honda butt [Edit] and dont answer things like this... ever heard the expression, nothin nice to say? keep your darn[Edit] mouth shut?... i know my mother taught me that when i was 3...

[quaddawg]

To each thier own. Good luck


I didn't get pissy with you, and you are getting WAY pissy with me.. shows your age, shows your maturity.


I wasn't going to judge you, but after that last response you can go piss up a rope little man.

[kewldjboy420]

phhht.. whatever.. and how old r u?

[kewldjboy420]

and you did judge me

[Pu241]

Uh, maybe not so civil now! (Backing away nice an slow, for the front door!)

[SoCalZ28]

:naka: wow that was worse than the guys on my camaro forum... I wanna see some pics along the way

[quaddawg]

phhht.. whatever.. and how old r u?

46


I just don't like being told to shut up.

I asked a question, WHY, that's all.

Then I gave an opinion.

I reiterated, over and over, that neither of us was "wrong" or "right"

You copped an attitude.

I am done.

I will not futher this pissing contest.

Good luck with your project. Enjoy.

[DuritzCrows17]

in before the lock.

[kewldjboy420]

well im sorry guys... not trying to be a cod piece[Edit].. and q dawg... however you feel about my ideas or however i feel about yours.. i do apologize.. i value any creative input from you guys...but my question still seems to go unanswered... why cant i just build drop brackets to drop the strut mounts, sway bar mounts, control arm mounts and rear axle mounts? if they were all dropped strait down ten inches why would the springs need to be taller or longer control arms?

[quaddawg]

Ok, I apologize also, for getting out of hand.

At least your thread is getting attention.

OK, somebody help this guy out.

[kewldjboy420]

lol