KYB GR2's/FMS Springs vs. MK2 Coilovers. Opinions?

[xaero_81]

In my search for an alternative suspension setup I have come across a fork in the road. Doing my aspire swap now so I figured i'd get them both done now.

I was initially going to just go ahead and grab the Rokkor mk2 coilover kit ($318 on ebay) which had a spring rate of 350F and 250R. However when I went to order them all they had were the 380/300 ones.

Now I am thinking about just getting the FMS Springs with KYB GR2s ($355 on ebay).

Anyone know the spring rate on the FMS springs?

Anyone have any pictures, opinions, or comments on what I should do?

Car will be B6T/G25MR swapped as soon as I get around to it and likely have 14-15" rims. Also will not be a daily driver.

Thanks for any help.

[TominMO]

Here is a good discussion on springs: http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...ms+spring+rate

Looks like stock springs are about 100 lbs front and rear, give or take 10 lbs. I would think that those coilover springs, which are way stiffer, would give you a bad ride. People who have FMS springs say they are not a whole lot stiffer than stock, just lower. If you want better cornering without a stiffer ride, go to the Aspire front sway bar, and either the Aspire rear axle/brake swap, or stick a stiffening rod into the Festiva rear axle beam. Also look into strut tower braces.

Here is a discussion on the threaded rod in the Festiva rear axle: http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...ffer+rear+axle

I had GR2s all around, but went to Aspire Monroe struts on the rear for the higher spring perch, because my rims/tires were wide enough (185/60x14, 38mm offset) that the Festy GR2s rubbed.

[schads]

Here is a good discussion on springs: http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...ms+spring+rate

Looks like stock springs are about 100 lbs front and rear, give or take 10 lbs. I would think that those coilover springs, which are way stiffer, would give you a bad ride. People who have FMS springs say they are not a whole lot stiffer than stock, just lower. If you want better cornering without a stiffer ride, go to the Aspire front sway bar, and either the Aspire rear axle/brake swap, or stick a stiffening rod into the Festiva rear axle beam. Also look into strut tower braces.

Here is a discussion on the threaded rod in the Festiva rear axle: http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...ffer+rear+axle

I had GR2s all around, but went to Aspire Monroe struts on the rear for the higher spring perch, because my rims/tires were wide enough (185/60x14, 38mm offset) that the Festy GR2s rubbed.

Great links lots of good info.

[xaero_81]

Thanks Tom. My next question was about the Aspire struts. I've also got the aspire sway bar installed and was planning on doing a bar installed in my aspire beam at some point.

[big_ty2003]

"Rokkor mk2 coilover kit (...) spring rate of 350F and 250R"

Go with the Rokkor kit! Flying miata's best kit for the Miata is 400F and 300R
so seeing as a festiva is slightly lighter 350F and 250R sounds about perfect.

High spring rates are fine as long as they are matched with the correct dampening.

Also, I think that the aspire front sway bar increases understeer.

[angrygocart]

I have the FMS springs with KYBs. They are a huge improvement over stock. I think they are comfortable for a daily driver however that is an opinion that is different for each person, a friend who is not into performance said it was too stiff. It still sits too high (again my opinion) with my 13" 175/50 tires. The FMS springs for the Aspire are stiffer and are still very streetable (rode in a car equipped with them and KYBs). I would recommend the FMS aspire springs with the KYBs since you wil have a heavier engine/trans in the car. The Teins are high quality and would allow height adjustments for different wheel/tire combinations. A buy-in earlier this year they went for around $800. I have a set that I will be installing soon so I can't comment on ride quality for them.

[bhazard]

So you're asking if you should use a performance coilover kit or stock replacement struts with crappy lowering springs? For a non-daily driver?

Ty I dont think he would notice any increased understeer if there was more. I think the pro's outweight the con's there anyway. I enjoyed having it. The reduced body roll is well worth it.

[xaero_81]

I would recommend the FMS aspire springs with the KYBs since you will have a heavier engine/trans in the car.

Are the Aspire FMS springs taller than the Festiva ones?

So you're asking if you should use a performance coilover kit or stock replacement struts with crappy lowering springs? For a non-daily driver?

From what I understand the KYBs are a tad better based on member's reviews.

Go with the Rokkor kit! Flying miata's best kit for the Miata is 400F and 300R
so seeing as a festiva is slightly lighter 350F and 250R sounds about perfect.

Now that's what I like to hear. Just need to wait for another 350/250 set to reappear. Or determine if Aspire FMS Springs are taller than the Festiva ones.

[big_ty2003]

here are some things I found on the web...

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:GeKwuyZgCB4J:www.stealthtdi.com/SwayBars.html+FWD+UNDERSTEER+SWAY+BAR+THICKNESS&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&ie=UTF-8

In FWD cars, the key is to reduce understeer and increase motive traction. Many popular suspension kits come with huge front AND rear sway bars. The car stays level and the ride is tight. Turn-in, or the car's ability to resist understeer, is improved. But the inside front wheel will still spin while accelerating out of a turn unless you've invested big bucks into a torque-biasing differential. Leaving the front bar stock and increasing only the rear bar allows the front wheels to articulate normally. As written above, the weight that's not sitting on the suspended inside rear wheel is now being applied to the inside front wheel, which is not being unloaded by a huge front bar and is now able to extend to the ground for more traction. Make sense?

On front-wheel-drive cars, the large bar goes on the rear, not the front. Because the driving wheels are at the front of the car, you want the increased roll stiffness at the rear. This improves traction at the driving wheels and reduces understeer which front-wheel-drive setups always seem to have. An anti-roll bar or a larger one would be used at the front of a front-wheel drive car only if the rear wheel lifts during steady-state cornering, and if the car leans too much. So use a front bar with caution unless you like heavy understeer on your front-wheel driver. - (pp. 149, How to make your Car Handle Fred Puhn)

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=58&

SO... long story short, adding a thicker aspire swaybar is a disadvantage unless you have a stiff enough rear end. And I mean stiffer than the stock aspire rear or festiva rear. The stock aspire is probably setup from the factory to understeer as most cars are. So using the aspire front bar and rear beam wouldn't put you at an advantage in my opinion.

p.s. Donny the aspire beam already has a bar inside....

[blkfordsedan]

I agree with Ty. Typically on a FWD car, adding just a heavier front sway bar will increase understeer and decrease traction coming out of a corner. You need a heavier rear bar to transfer the weight onto the front wheels, and they need to be able to move independent of each other. If the rear bar is stiff enough to pull the inside rear off the ground, thats about as good as you can get. From there, I think the best setup would be to have stiff enough front springs that will handle the increased weight transfer without allowing too much body roll and the smallest front bar you can get by with. I'm certainly no race chassis engineer, but the theory makes sense in my mind. If it's a street car & ride quality is an issue, then stiffer sway bars will make the ride rougher and too stiff may actually handle worse on rough roads.

I would use the Aspire front bar if I had the rear bar as well. They should balance each other, but I suspect the biggest gain is from the rear bar/axle beam. I wouldn't use the front bar without the rear, but thats just me. The bottom line is that a stock Festy handles like a refrigerator on a skateboard.........so almost anything will improve the handling.

[big_ty2003]

Aspire rear beam, festiva front bar, and MK3 performance coilovers for the win!!!

Check these out Donny!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CXRACING-92-98-VW-Golf-MK3-Damper-Coilover-Suspension-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem20b46d58d2QQitemZ140466018514QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[xaero_81]

Check these out Donny!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CXRAC...Q5fAccessories

As much as i'd love to spend $600 on a coilover kit, my wallet, wife and frugality will not allow it. But I will wait until the 350/250 Rokkor set comes back around.

And I just noticed the bar in the aspire beam while painting it. Would a thicker one a couple inches back help at all? I already have the brackets and bar lying around.

[big_ty2003]

What do you plan to do with this "non daily driver"

People might be able to guide you better if they know your intentions.
Speeding ticket magnet? Drag car? Autocross?.... let us know man!

I would just leave the aspire rear beam stock. Upgrade your suspension (there is another cheaper kit on ebay right now for $269 or something). My suggestion would be to use the festiva front stabilizing bar first then beat the hell out of the car and if you think you need the aspire front bar go head and install it. Beat the hell out of the car again and see what the difference is. Might be a positive difference but I am guessing it is going to be negative.

Basically what I am saying is to change one thing at a time so you can tell what each change does.

Grocery getter (the fastest car on here) doesn't even use a sway bar when he races. Just a little food for thought.

[postman101]

I have the rokkor kit on my car and I use it as a summer car. All I can say is if you have good roads in your area and want your car to drive like a gocart and have very little body roll get the coilovers. There are a few bumps in town where I do leave the seat lol but the improvment in handeling and how the car drives is 100% better.

[xaero_81]

Ty, non-daily driver as in not my work car. I drive 70 miles round trip and don't want to drive my B6T car. I plan on it just being my B6T "nice" Festiva. Autocross and strip occasionally.

Postman, I am using your write up as a guide so if there are any tricks I may need to know in advance would be useful. How do the rears handle larger wheels? Need spacers?