Advanced Suspension Mods

[Movin]

Even off road needs to be defined, the rally cars use a whole different setup than dune cars or desert cars.

For the dunes we need lots of tire, low gears high horse power and extra resistance to wheel hop and low ride height with long travel, some sway bar

For rocks and desert we need long travel, medium to tall height, low gears, narrow tough pliable tires and medium shocking no sway bar

Rally needs tough long shocks, tough traction tires light as possible , sway bar, regular gears and overbuilt everything!

Snow and mud have there own best set ups and all set ups will vary depending where you are.

Out here I like my droop to equal compression, I like aggressive tires with a soft tough side wall ( oxymoron cured with $$$ ) long travel and lifted with shock valving heavier than stock. Springs lighter and longer than stock. No sway bar. More rubber dampening than stock. This and all the above..it never stops!! there is always something to improve our car!!

[nitrofarm]

Sag is the distance your shocks compress from the weight of the vehicle and load. Ride height is the height at which the vehicle sits at rest. Ride height can be measured in several places along the bottom of the car, sag is always measured at the shock absorber on a car ( motorcycles are a bit different here). "Droop" is sag in reverse, it is the distance the suspension falls when the vehicle is lifted. Droop is often measured at axle centetline to a common point ( side to side) on the vehicle. Droop is more of an off-road method of suspension tuning.

Thanks for the clarification Charlie. Next question: Isn't using the shorter shock on the rear beam the same thing as what off roaders do when using droop settings?

[Advancedynamix]

I guess I dont know what you mean by "SAGGING" then. I think of sagging as the chassis sitting lower.Isnt that ride height? And I get the fact that if you were to physically move the pivot points you will change Roll Center.

Sag is the distance your shocks compress from the weight of the vehicle and load. Ride height is the height at which the vehicle sits at rest. Ride height can be measured in several places along the bottom of the car, sag is always measured at the shock absorber on a car ( motorcycles are a bit different here). "Droop" is sag in reverse, it is the distance the suspension falls when the vehicle is lifted. Droop is often measured at axle centetline to a common point ( side to side) on the vehicle. Droop is more of an off-road method of suspension tuning.

[nitrofarm]

Is that the right part number? I have kyb kg9130 on my list if things to buy.. Maybe I have it wrong. Good thing I haven't ordered yet. Ha!

I have KG9105 fitting the Cabriolet VW 88-93 models.

[Die-Laughing]

Is that the right part number? I have kyb kg9130 on my list if things to buy.. Maybe I have it wrong. Good thing I haven't ordered yet. Ha!

[nitrofarm]

Hey just wanted to put this out there....Ordered from South West today & he "Price Matched" the eBay seller "High Performance Parts" on the coil springs,so I was able to save $10.00 per spring. Also per Charlie's advice I ordered the KYB VW Cabrio pn# KG9105 shocks and found them on eBay for $40.00 each shipped!
Thanks for all your help Charlie & Tweak. :thumbs_up:

[nitrofarm]

What Matt said.

Also, body roll is caused by the inertial forces acting with the stored energy in your suspension ( spring pressure) too lean the car over. If you reduce the amount if travel that this stored spring energy has, then you limit the amount of roll . The roll center is not directly affected by shock length, that is affected by suspension pivot points and ride height.
A certain amount of body roll is beneficial, but that amount is different depending on what the car is being used for and the drivers technique.

I guess I dont know what you mean by "SAGGING" then. I think of sagging as the chassis sitting lower.Isnt that ride height? And I get the fact that if you were to physically move the pivot points you will change Roll Center.

[Advancedynamix]

What Matt said.

Also, body roll is caused by the inertial forces acting with the stored energy in your suspension ( spring pressure) too lean the car over. If you reduce the amount if travel that this stored spring energy has, then you limit the amount of roll . The roll center is not directly affected by shock length, that is affected by suspension pivot points and ride height.
A certain amount of body roll is beneficial, but that amount is different depending on what the car is being used for and the drivers technique.

[zoom zoom]

If your sagging 2" lower than stock and you go around a corner fast, instead of the car lifting 2-3" till the strut tops out or weight transfers you could lift 4-5"...that's not accurate numbers by any means but it would lean the wrong way a lot more than stock. Probably why its been said numerous times that he takes out strut travel but keeps it where the dampening is still at the top of the strut instead of the strut being halfway compressed already by using lowering springs.

[nitrofarm]

Okay,
I've gotten a few more questions from people, so I'll update this thread a little more.

Rear spring rate: If you run 150lb springs on a stock length shock, you'll most likely ride at a stock height or higher, if you run 120lb springs then your car will sag, and you'll have height adjustment from lower than stock, to higher than stock. If you run even softer springs then you'll have even lower ride height. I don't recommend too much sag however, because it will encourage body roll, and your car will not be fun around corners. a lower center of gravity is not more important than proper free sag or proper shock valving.

Charlie is this true because with too much sag your now changing the "Roll Center" too much?

[rbrown]

What your actually looking for in the front is stiffer rebound dampening. The VW struts are shorter than Rio struts and have considerably slower rebound dampening. Also, VW struts allow the top knuckle mounting hole to be elongated .250" which allows over -3 degrees of negative camber in the front. This is a big advantage, these cars drive much better with negative camber. Stability is increased with a decrease in steering effort, while increasing traction in high speed corners. Even fuel mileage increases with negative camber.

Thank you. I will not be racing this little guy but anything to help mileage and ride is welcome.

[moz]

Any chance you could teach us how to align and set the camber on the advanced dynamix style suspension?
I'm cutting bump stops as I type this

[Advancedynamix]

What your actually looking for in the front is stiffer rebound dampening. The VW struts are shorter than Rio struts and have considerably slower rebound dampening. Also, VW struts allow the top knuckle mounting hole to be elongated .250" which allows over -3 degrees of negative camber in the front. This is a big advantage, these cars drive much better with negative camber. Stability is increased with a decrease in steering effort, while increasing traction in high speed corners. Even fuel mileage increases with negative camber.

[rbrown]

I was going with Rio KYB's in the front and Festiva KYB's in the rear. I figured the Rio would be a bit stiffer than Festiva in front. Now I see all these posts on the VW units.

How much better/stiffer are the VW units?

[nitrofarm]

Thanks for the input,I'm going to order the VW shocks this weekend. :thumbs_up: