Advanced Suspension Mods

[Advancedynamix]

Thanks for the update Charlie. Could you do a write up on the DIY alignment? Are you running with stock camber in the front?

Cheers

Sent from somewhere west of here via Tapatalk!

Ian, I am usually in such a hurry when doing my setups that I forget to take pictures, but I'll do a quickie on aligning a festiva, stock there is not much to adjust really, just toe and camber with the strut mounts. I run -2.5 degrees camber in the front as well with 0 toe. This car is awesome because those settings work great with my R compound tires, my slicks and I ran those settings continuous for 6K miles across country and back on brand new tires and experienced no noticeable tire wear. Gotta love that!

If I may ask....

What brand bushings did you use on your LCA?

And also, what type/brand/model bump stops did you use in the rear?

I'm finding that all the bump stops I've tried need to be trimmed down to fit inside the coilover sleeves in the rear. Is this normal practice?

Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad this thread is helpful to so many. I prefer the bumpstops sold for VWs like the Mk3 Mk4 or new beetle. I buy them by the dozen and cut them to all sorts of different shapes. It's okay to trim them for your application. I find the VW ones are the easiest to trim and are very long to start with. the front bump stops are not as critical as the rears.
Here is a photo of the inner LCA bushings and the invoice. You could probably make a killing by hooking up with these guys and selling them to us over here. they are a really nice part with internal knurling to hold the grease.

[moz]

If I may ask....

What brand bushings did you use on your LCA?

And also, what type/brand/model bump stops did you use in the rear?

I'm finding that all the bump stops I've tried need to be trimmed down to fit inside the coilover sleeves in the rear. Is this normal practice?

[moz]

Thank you charlie!!! My rear suspension is now complete.
Will do engine swap then front suspension.
I have my coilovers here already.

I refer to this thread before starting work every time.

Very grateful

[fastivaca]

Thanks for the update Charlie. Could you do a write up on the DIY alignment? Are you running with stock camber in the front?

Cheers

Sent from somewhere west of here via Tapatalk!

[Advancedynamix]

It's been too long since I've updated this, and a lot of you guys have PM'd me with pretty much the same questions, so I'll do my best to answer them for everyone.

First off, this suspension setup has been in use now for over 2 years, from sea to sea and on half a dozen road courses. I have learned a thing or two and I've changed things a bit from the original write up. Here is a list of changes.

On my latest rear shocks I no longer shorten the rod that holds the lower shock mount. I simply remove 3" from the shaft itself in a similar procedure. I cut a 3" portion from the upper part of the shaft just under the stock bumpstop locator (raised portion where the chrome plating stops). I then face and drill/tap both parts and cut a .125" 45 degree chamfer in the lower portion for a weld fillet. I then use a grade 8 stud (1/4-28) to thread the top back on the shaft and I weld (GTAW) the shaft back together using ER70-s2 filler in accordance with AWS D17. I don't show pictures of this, because If you can't decipher these instructions you shouldn't be performing this mod to a shock absorber, but there are people in your area who most likely can do this properly.
On shortened shaft KYB shocks I run 8" long southwest speed 150 LB 1 7/8 I.D. springs for just about all situations with the sleeves I showed in the original portion of my writeup. These 150lb springs are the most versatile setup I've found.
On unshortened KYB rear shocks, you must use the longer 10" springs. I have found that 120lbs is a good rate for these springs. Since your car will have more suspension sag, you need a lighter rate. the wheel pressure will be nearly the same with the 120lb 10" spring as it is with the 150lb 8" spring. because you'll have 3" or more (depending on load) of sag.

Front spring rate: I suggest a 200lb spring with the VW MK2/3 struts on a car with a g-series trans (all B series engines). On E series trans cars you may want to go with a 175 lb rate. The reason for this is because the g-series tranny mounts the engine atleast an inch further forward, and it weighs a bit more than an e-series. Believe it or not, this dimensional difference is equal to almost 100 extra pounds of pressure on the front tires. Don't run 100 less lbs of spring rate though, springs don't work like that. We work with percentage values on spring choice, not lb for lb figures.
I use 10" springs for most applications. For those who want a slammed low car, I suggest 7" or 8" springs with filler coils. Since the shock length isn't changing and the filler coil is giving you your sag, no spring rate change needs to be made for the shorter front springs.

Okay now for things I've worn out or broken.
For street use and street tire track use stock rubber bushings in everything are perfectly fine (given your bushings are in good shape). For R-compound or Slicks with a G-series and over 120HP you'll notice LCA inner bushing displacement issues, especially on the passenger side. I found Poly LCA replacements are available in Australia for reasonably low prices, but shipping is a bear so you'll want to group buy on these or find a comparable u.s. distributed product. My poly bushings have held up well, but gave no noticeable (I measure performance in milliseconds and exit speeds) increase or decrease in performance. The car just holds it's alignment now, when I push it to the limit. Those in colder climates may not have the LCA bushing problem, I run my cars at temps well above 100 degrees F. In climates where the car will be driven in sub 0F weather I strongly discourage the use of polyurethane bushings as Poly can become brittle at low temps. I had lots of issues with this when I lived in Maine.

Brakes: I originally used Capri XR2 front brakes and Festiva rear drums. I have since swapped to Aspire Auto Front brakes and I drilled my festiva drums for 4x100 pattern. The Aspire brakes work much better than the capri units, I had problems with my capri brakes hanging up and heating up. There are much better pad choices for the aspire as well, but you can run aspire pads on capri calipers. I use Performance Friction Sport compound pads on drilled ebay rotors and I'm still on my first set (thousands of track miles and way more street miles). I made the switch because I wanted to run 13" wheels for my R-compound tires and slicks.

Camber Adjusters: I am on my second generation of rear camber adjuster/spacers. I'll post up some drawings and pictures of what they look like. I don't think I'll go into production of these, because the small market just means I'm paying out of pocket to get everyone trick parts and I can't do that. However, I will make a couple sets whenever I need 1 set, so I'll probably throw a set or two up on the for sale forum from time to time. Festivas Love negative Camber, and hate toe. Ride quality, fuel mileage and performance will increase with -2 degrees or more camber in the rear and wider tires fit under the fenders too! I have had zero wear issues because the toe is what wears tires, not the camber and I run mine at 0 degrees toe on all four corners. Since there is no scrub, the tires roll easily and don't wear quickly. I corner very aggressively all the time, so my tires wear very evenly. For people who don't drive aggressively then normal tire rotation should even out the wear.

Tip: learn how to align your car yourself. I fix peoples alignments all the time who have payed "laser alignment rack" places a lot of money to mess up their cars. It just takes simple tools and it can be done quickly. I fixed the alignment on 2 cars at FM6 with just the tools that I had with me for the show.

For all those who have been waiting for me to produce this suspension I must apologize. I can't do it at a fair price. I build these cars as a hobby to relax from the rigors of work and if I turn this into work then it will no longer be a hobby. I will however give any and all advice that I can for free. There are talented people who can perform these mods in most towns and cities around the world. I can't go anywhere without bumping into fabricators and most will do side work for beers, so no excuses! This suspension setup is cheap when compared to what it turns a Festiva into.

[fasteva]

this was really helpful thanks for you expertise !!

[moz]

Re: Advanced Suspension Mods

and i was respectfully thinking that charlies write up thread may not be the best place for this convorsation, respectfully

True.
Apologies to charlie for participating.
Can moderators remove the past few posts?

[Huli]

Re: Advanced Suspension Mods

Bobbyspider, how much did you cut from the civic springs in the rear? I will just get lowering ones of the amount you cut.

Unless the JY gets a nice looking one on accident.

[moz]

Re: Advanced Suspension Mods

I would buy a used set for now.
How long til you get your coil overs?
Either that or just bite the bullet and get the coil overs now.

The Kia wagon springs... I don't know.
I'm pretty sure they'll be too high. And its against my religion to cut springs. They're designed with a certain amount of coils and travel for a reason.

[bobbyspider]

I would love to get those springs, where?

Don't want to get used because by the time you realize one is no good it is too late. I found a new set of 4, but for that price I can amlost get the VW c/o's

I was thinking of maybe a vehicle still supported by aftermarket. Honda? Mazda?

I used stock Honda civic springs and cut them down on my white car and it rides pretty good and the springs are progressive rate so bottoming out is a thing of the past

and i was respectfully thinking that charlies write up thread may not be the best place for this convorsation, respectfully

[Huli]

Re: Advanced Suspension Mods

What about Kia Pride Wagon springs? http://www.koraps.com/shop/item.php?it_id=1284139 :what:

[Huli]

Re: Advanced Suspension Mods

Perhaps get some aspire rear springs for the time being?
Aspires were about 400lbs heavier than the festiva.
Strut should be OK if its new. But maybe there's a problem there too.

I would love to get those springs, where?

Don't want to get used because by the time you realize one is no good it is too late. I found a new set of 4, but for that price I can amlost get the VW c/o's

I was thinking of maybe a vehicle still supported by aftermarket. Honda? Mazda?

[defprun]

Got 2001 Rio struts today, going to install them tomorrow waiting for the paint to dry.

[moz]

Re: Advanced Suspension Mods

Perhaps get some aspire rear springs for the time being?
Aspires were about 400lbs heavier than the festiva.
Strut should be OK if its new. But maybe there's a problem there too.

[Huli]

In order to give you a better indication of what you need, we need to know what suspension you are running currently (eg. Stock, stock with cut springs, aspire). When the car is empty, does it sit at its normal height? If you were to put weight on the back of the car, does is sink instantly?
If you can't answer these questions, then for the sake of safety, I can only point you to a suspension shop.

Incoming current setup:
Front - 2004 Kia Rio knuckles with springs cut (1.5 coils as indicated in that swap thread). New Monroe Festiva struts. All other parts new and festiva.
Rear - Aspire rear beam, stock festiva springs (suck), New Monroe struts.

I like how it rides with just me in it. The rear needs to be about 1/2" higher when sitting empty to look right, and it is way to low when I put stuff in the car. 2 people and six bags of groceries make it bottom out on some road bumps. 4 people is just not going to happen, and I need it to at least have my kids in the back.

Eventually, I am going VW coil overs. Right now, just want to be able to drive it w/o worries of ripping my new tires to shreds.

Thanks!