Advanced Suspension Mods

[nitrofarm]

New Tip: For those of you who are using VW mk2 struts and Kia rio strut mounts, and don't have access to a lathe to turn the shaft down to fit snugly in the bearing or make a sleeve I have a new trick to center and secure the strut into the bearing. Use 14x1.5mm tapered lug nuts with the taper side toward the bearing, torque to 50ft/lbs and then install the other nut over the lug nut as a lock nut. Here's a part number for open ended 14x1.5mm lug nuts. Dorman 611-110.1 98949.1. They are usually in stock at pep boys. If you want to add a nice performance look to the package you can also but some 14mm "tuner" lug nuts in funky colors off ebay. I don't endorse Chinese aluminum lug nuts to hold your wheels on, but these fasteners aren't under much load so I don't see a problem here. Make sure they are 14x1.5mm though.

Thats cool,so it eliminates the need for the washer as well.Cool tip Charles!

[TominMO]

I got a set of front GR-2s from Rock Auto a while back. One came with the wrong size top nut (the box had been opened at some point in the past, and the nut swapped out. It was in its own little bag.) By sheer good luck the thread pattern on the shaft was 12x1.5! So I used a lug nut I had laying around to do the job. It's still on there.

[nitrofarm]

Originally Posted by Advancedynamix
Instead of switching to an aspire beam, I would find shorter shocks. Try KYB gas adjust shocks for a MK1 vw. I have a set but havn't tried them yet. They are shorter with stiffer compression dampening and will accept the 1 7/8 coilover sleeves with less modification than the aspire/festiva shocks. Again, I havn't bolted them up, these are just an example of trying to find a better solution than anti sway bars.
[/QUOTE]

What year/model do I look for or a pn would be cool, I would like to try this option first. Did you start taking the 3" off the top of the KYB because the piston was bottoming out on full compression? Does the VW shock have the same width @ the bottom bushing,or will that need to be trimmed for fitment into the mounting cage? And when you say the "Hats" are slotted & dont really fit all that well. That doesnt mean they dont work, correct? They just arent perfect,correct? Thanks!

[nitrofarm]

Is this the KYB "Gas Adjust" he is referring to ? KYB EUROPE Part # 551014 Rock Auto has them for $58

[Advancedynamix]

Originally Posted by Advancedynamix
Instead of switching to an aspire beam, I would find shorter shocks. Try KYB gas adjust shocks for a MK1 vw. I have a set but havn't tried them yet. They are shorter with stiffer compression dampening and will accept the 1 7/8 coilover sleeves with less modification than the aspire/festiva shocks. Again, I havn't bolted them up, these are just an example of trying to find a better solution than anti sway bars.

I remove 3" from stock fitment KYB shocks too reduce the amount of sag at lower ride heights. Suspension sag in the rear is the cause of unnecessary and detrimental body roll in a Festiva. This also positions the shock piston in the proper range for driving. Lowering a Festiva without shortening the shocks will actually add seconds to lap times, proving that improperly lowered cars handle worse than stick w ride height, regardless of how much sportier they feel.

The gas adjust shock for MK1 VW is already nearly 3" shorter, yet has more suspension travel ( allowing room for longer bump stops and they have significantly stiffer compression dampening.

What year/model do I look for or a pn would be cool, I would like to try this option first. Did you start taking the 3" off the top of the KYB because the piston was bottoming out on full compression? Does the VW shock have the same width @ the bottom bushing,or will that need to be trimmed for fitment into the mounting cage? And when you say the "Hats" are slotted & dont really fit all that well. That doesnt mean they dont work, correct? They just arent perfect,correct? Thanks![/QUOTE]

[Advancedynamix]

The bottom bushing needs to be trimmed around .100". I took nearly .250 of the inside and used a spacer on the outside to space the shock inward for more clearance. There is a chance that the beam will contact the shock if this isn't done. I need wheel spacers before I can lower my car all the way, when I get them on, I'll post pictures. Right now it's about 1.75" lower than stock.

[nitrofarm]

Thanks for the input,I'm going to order the VW shocks this weekend. :thumbs_up:

[rbrown]

I was going with Rio KYB's in the front and Festiva KYB's in the rear. I figured the Rio would be a bit stiffer than Festiva in front. Now I see all these posts on the VW units.

How much better/stiffer are the VW units?

[Advancedynamix]

What your actually looking for in the front is stiffer rebound dampening. The VW struts are shorter than Rio struts and have considerably slower rebound dampening. Also, VW struts allow the top knuckle mounting hole to be elongated .250" which allows over -3 degrees of negative camber in the front. This is a big advantage, these cars drive much better with negative camber. Stability is increased with a decrease in steering effort, while increasing traction in high speed corners. Even fuel mileage increases with negative camber.

[moz]

Any chance you could teach us how to align and set the camber on the advanced dynamix style suspension?
I'm cutting bump stops as I type this

[rbrown]

What your actually looking for in the front is stiffer rebound dampening. The VW struts are shorter than Rio struts and have considerably slower rebound dampening. Also, VW struts allow the top knuckle mounting hole to be elongated .250" which allows over -3 degrees of negative camber in the front. This is a big advantage, these cars drive much better with negative camber. Stability is increased with a decrease in steering effort, while increasing traction in high speed corners. Even fuel mileage increases with negative camber.

Thank you. I will not be racing this little guy but anything to help mileage and ride is welcome.

[nitrofarm]

Okay,
I've gotten a few more questions from people, so I'll update this thread a little more.

Rear spring rate: If you run 150lb springs on a stock length shock, you'll most likely ride at a stock height or higher, if you run 120lb springs then your car will sag, and you'll have height adjustment from lower than stock, to higher than stock. If you run even softer springs then you'll have even lower ride height. I don't recommend too much sag however, because it will encourage body roll, and your car will not be fun around corners. a lower center of gravity is not more important than proper free sag or proper shock valving.

Charlie is this true because with too much sag your now changing the "Roll Center" too much?

[zoom zoom]

If your sagging 2" lower than stock and you go around a corner fast, instead of the car lifting 2-3" till the strut tops out or weight transfers you could lift 4-5"...that's not accurate numbers by any means but it would lean the wrong way a lot more than stock. Probably why its been said numerous times that he takes out strut travel but keeps it where the dampening is still at the top of the strut instead of the strut being halfway compressed already by using lowering springs.

[Advancedynamix]

What Matt said.

Also, body roll is caused by the inertial forces acting with the stored energy in your suspension ( spring pressure) too lean the car over. If you reduce the amount if travel that this stored spring energy has, then you limit the amount of roll . The roll center is not directly affected by shock length, that is affected by suspension pivot points and ride height.
A certain amount of body roll is beneficial, but that amount is different depending on what the car is being used for and the drivers technique.

[nitrofarm]

What Matt said.

Also, body roll is caused by the inertial forces acting with the stored energy in your suspension ( spring pressure) too lean the car over. If you reduce the amount if travel that this stored spring energy has, then you limit the amount of roll . The roll center is not directly affected by shock length, that is affected by suspension pivot points and ride height.
A certain amount of body roll is beneficial, but that amount is different depending on what the car is being used for and the drivers technique.

I guess I dont know what you mean by "SAGGING" then. I think of sagging as the chassis sitting lower.Isnt that ride height? And I get the fact that if you were to physically move the pivot points you will change Roll Center.