Announcement

**tls_zx3** · 04-07-2011, 10:44 PM

oh and i have a head/lifter question

i have two heads. the one that is on the engine now is a older solid tappet head but is very clean. the other is a newer hydrolic lifter head that is very nasty.

which head would be a better choice for me to use? can i put hydrolic lifters on my older style head? are the cams any different in the two?

**thered56** · 04-07-2011, 11:03 PM

Any advice from me on heads for a B3 would be in favour of the Aspire's head with the roller rockers. I don't know if you want to obtain yet another head, but that's my .02. I really do like a turbo B3, and I'm looking forward to seeing your build, that is, as long as your pictures come in a higher quantity!

**blkfordsedan** · 04-08-2011, 07:02 AM

I would use the head with the best valve guides & seats and probably the solid tappet cam & rockers. The cams are different between the solid version and the HLA version, but should interchange in the heads. Personally, I would prefer the solid since it would eliminate any future sticking HLA issues. Performance wise, there's not any noteable difference (especially if you're going boost). The only better set-up, IMO, would be an Aspire cam & roller followers.

How much boost are you planning? 127hp is daunting goal for a 62hp motor!

**tls_zx3** · 04-08-2011, 08:06 AM

idk how much boost. plan so far is a 14b turbo and i'll run it up till the clutch starts slipping and turn it back down. i made 400hp with a 130hp zetec. i dont think 120 will a prob. i want to have it spool a little slow. i dont want it boosting in town driving and normal driving. i only need boost if im going wot reving to the max. low end boost will just kill my fuel mileage in town.

but...

i pulled the engine apart this morning and the main journals on the crank dont look to good. they arent ruined like the other engine. but i dont think they are in good enough shape to mess with rebuilding this engine. so unless i can come up with another b3 short block or a good crank i may end up with a b6

and thanks for the advice guys. if i do use the b3 i'll just stick with the solid. i dont think buying another head will make a noticeable difference when i could just crank up the boost 1 more lb to make up that difference lol.

what year model b6 do i need if i want to use stock b3 IM and EM

**eurotiva** · 04-08-2011, 09:13 AM

Every time you add 1 atmosphere to a na motor you will double the hp.

b3=63hp (63x2=126hp)

bp=127hp

1 atm.= 14.7 psi. (depending on elevation)

So you'd have to get a b3 to 15ish lbs of boost.

That would be fun. I ran my b3 on 10 lbs. and it was a blast. I think it was making 90ish whp. It ran a 15.84 @ 84 in the 1/4.

**blkfordsedan** · 04-08-2011, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by tls_zx3 View Post

idk how much boost. plan so far is a 14b turbo and i'll run it up till the clutch starts slipping and turn it back down.
what year model b6 do i need if i want to use stock b3 IM and EM

If you use a stock clutch that will be about 6Lbs!! If you go with a good aftermarket set-up, clutch slip won't be an issue, even at 130hp.
I like your mindset! Push it till it starts to break, then back it off a little! Judging from your ZX3, I'm excited to see what you can accomplish with a Festy.

You want a first gen B6 if you want to use the B3 manifolds. Look for a '86 to '89 Mercury Tracer or Mazda 323. Your looking for the throttle body to point forward over the valve cover, as opposed to sideways toward the drivers side (brake booster area). Actually, if you find one you could just use the B6 manifolds which are a slightly better flowing design. I believe some guys here have used the factory tubular steel EX manifold off an Aspire B3 as a base for a custom turbo manifold.

**blkfordsedan** · 04-08-2011, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by eurotiva View Post

Every time you add 1 atmosphere to a na motor you will double the hp.

b3=63hp (63x2=126hp)

bp=127hp

1 atm.= 14.7 psi. (depending on elevation)

So you'd have to get a b3 to 15ish lbs of boost.

That would be fun. I ran my b3 on 10 lbs. and it was a blast. I think it was making 90ish whp. It ran a 15.84 @ 84 in the 1/4.

Maybe a stupid question, but I'm not very experienced with turbo applications (except old diesel tractors). I understand the whole atmosphere principal, but aren't you assuming that the TB, intake manifold & head are capable of the extra cfm flow? I mean, the boost pressure should be a direct indication of resistance to flow. If your BP is developing 10psi of boost w/stock head and you port/flow your head, your boost should drop (i.e. to say 8.5psi) with all else being equal. Yet, your engine output may increase. Just because you take a stock 62hp B3 and pump 15psi to it, does that necessarily mean you'll get 124hp? I wouldn't think the boost/flow ratio would be linear, but rather dictated by the intake & head flow. Wouldn't the head flow stall out (at say the flow generated by 7psi) so that every 1psi increase above 7psi would result in less of a hp increase?

Or...............

Since you're doubling the atm pressure, what was 400cfm is now effectively 800cfm. SO, if your head flow is "X" cfm naturally aspirated then when you pressurize it to 14.7psi it automatically becomes "2X" cfm? I get confused, because in basic terms, it takes much less air flow to generate 4psi in a garden hose than it does in a 4" pipe. In other words, I can see where the fluid (air molecules in this case) that can't flow is converted to an increase in pressure.

Sorry for the long question, LOL. Maybe I should just buy a book on Forced Induction and edumacate myself!

**thered56** · 04-08-2011, 06:24 PM

Whether B3 or B6 I really like what you are trying to achieve with the build!

Originally posted by blkfordsedan View Post

Maybe I should just buy a book on Forced Induction and edumacate myself!

I haven't read it, but often hear it as well revered:

Amazon.com

http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Boost-Turbocharger-Engineering-Performance/dp/0837601606

**tls_zx3** · 04-08-2011, 07:42 PM

what you are saying about turbos is completely wrong. sorry to say. it is a good consept but if that were the case 14.7psi with a 14b or t25 would be the same as 14.7psi through s475 or pt88. just isnt the case.

my focus made 220whp on a t3/to4e with 12psi. and with a 50 trim it made 280whp on 12lb. exact same zetec making 130chp stock

the power you will make on a set boost will very depending on engine but will vary more depending on the turbo you are running.

thanks for all the info guys. the main reason i am looking for a engine to use the stock manifolds with is b/c the price at the salvage yard. should be able to get a b6 long block for right at 100 bucks just an intake manifold adds 45 to the price. i dont think the manifold will hold me back enough to justify its price.

if i do a b6 swap do i need to run the b6 vaf? i will be switching to a b6 ecu and injectors... as long as the donor is a 5spd

**gestiva** · 04-08-2011, 07:55 PM

The last 323 we looked at was a 5speed^^^
It looked complete and was a 1st gen(86)
Hate that it keeps giving you problems, and anything I can do I will...
FINALLY Got A Tag for the supermoto!!!!!!

**tls_zx3** · 04-08-2011, 08:39 PM

you can hook me up with a b6 short block

its about time you got that bike tagged. youve had it for months

**gestiva** · 04-08-2011, 08:54 PM

4 months and 6 days! lmao... Hopefully I can get up in time and go on the Cheaha ride with everyone! meet up is at 9am!!! kinda early for a Sat for me, lol

**tls_zx3** · 04-08-2011, 09:22 PM

im guessing my head gasket that i bought will not work on a b6. it says aspire on the box. but idk if they but a b3 in the aspire or not... no idea. i guess im going to pull a part to look at that b6 sun and see if it is any good or not

**villageidiot** · 04-08-2011, 09:30 PM

my head kit said b3 and b6 mazda

Announcement

Turbo Turtle festiva

Turbo Turtle festiva

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment