Rode in a 426hp 4th gen camaro

[mikemounlio]

Soon i will be able to compare my current tire to my federal 595 260 tread tires. I will have lots of feedback for you guys in due time. For me its more about what i can get my hands on rather then whats best.

The econo tires are a great dialy tire. I have them on lucifer and would buy another set. If the federal 595 ends up being good ill stick to them tho. I would rather pay a bit more for a stickier tire! As far as race tire goes i may look into a full on set of federal race tires if i dont like the 595. But thats a long way away.

[mikemounlio]

I drove my 165 hard on the street. I didnt mess around trying dumb stuff tho. Well i did hit an off ramp or two at speed but thats it. I try to stay safe. My 165 400 tread was plenty for my b6t car with a crap torque curve (all or nothing). That said i didnt get crazy on the street. Im saving it all for autocross.

[ryanprins13]

The PO who was tracking my car for 13 years was using 215/45/13s on a 6" wide wheel. Way too much flex for my taste, but great grip. I switched to the larger wheel width, narrower tire width, and am getting a much better balance for my driving style (rwd bias). I can snap the rear end loose easier with trailing throttle oversteer. I can tell you that i would be outright terrified to be in the car on 165s unless it was on the track.

Maybe I'm still on the "wider is better" bandwagon, but I'm fitting tires sized appropriately for the wheel width and am not stretching. I have very little racecar experience, but a ton of trackrat time. Not basing my decisions on F1 screenings, but rather on seat time and driving experience. And a g tech sensor, so there is some data to backup my claims.

Advanced has certainly REwritten the suspension bible around here, so I'm very excited to try some narrower width wheels and tires. I can imagine the tossability goes up, lateral grip goes down. Track timea go ???

Thanks and sorry for threadjacking

It sounds a little like your comparing slicks to street tires but im not quite sure. What kind of tires are you talking about? A 185 wide tire thats super soft will have better grip than a 400 treadwear 165.
And you drive how your comefortable, changing your driving technique makes you slower for a while, but driving a fwd car like a rwd car is not as fast as the 'proper' technique for fwd racing.
Anyhow, with tires as small as ours there are few options so you go with the best you can get.
But if you had the same tire manufacturer making the same kind of tire out of the same compounds and they were the same circumference but one was 165 and the other was 200 width i would bet money that the 165 would give you better traction.
Maybe 175 or even 185 is optimum, but who knows, we dont have apples to apples comparisons we can do because of our less common tire diameter.
And for that matter haveing the same tire on one rim thats too narrow will have a lot different handling than that same tire on a rim thats too wide or nicely sized.
Anyway, sounds like you get to race, thats awesome you said you would be terrified to drive the car on the street with 165's, why is that? A lot of us use 145's and drive like hooligans, lol....

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[likeJIF]

Good read, thanks.

[RdstrBlk]

The PO who was tracking my car for 13 years was using 215/45/13s on a 6" wide wheel. Way too much flex for my taste, but great grip. I switched to the larger wheel width, narrower tire width, and am getting a much better balance for my driving style (rwd bias). I can snap the rear end loose easier with trailing throttle oversteer. I can tell you that i would be outright terrified to be in the car on 165s unless it was on the track.

Maybe I'm still on the "wider is better" bandwagon, but I'm fitting tires sized appropriately for the wheel width and am not stretching. I have very little racecar experience, but a ton of trackrat time. Not basing my decisions on F1 screenings, but rather on seat time and driving experience. And a g tech sensor, so there is some data to backup my claims.

Advanced has certainly REwritten the suspension bible around here, so I'm very excited to try some narrower width wheels and tires. I can imagine the tossability goes up, lateral grip goes down. Track timea go ???

Thanks and sorry for threadjacking

[Advancedynamix]

A top fuel dragster runs 5 seconds on 17.5" wide slicks and weights less than a Festiva. Lol. RWD and 7psi in a wrinkle wall make a little bit of a difference. 7000hp helps too. Lol

[festyfreak39]

Outlaw cars do 7 second quarter on an 8.5" slick

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[Advancedynamix]

I remember years ago spending hours and hours searching online for what was the optimum contact patch pressure. I was frustrated that i found nothing at the time.
But now i realize that the optimum pressure would be different depending on how sticky the tire is (ambient temperature and tire temp affects that) what surface your on (asphalt, gravel, snow, ice).
And your contact patch size changes based on your speed and lateral force.
Also its hard to measure surface area of some tread patterns.
So it sounds to me like theres too many variables to figure it out.
Or has someone done this?

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It's been calculated by many OEM manufacturers, and the military. It's different for every application.

[ryanprins13]

I remember years ago spending hours and hours searching online for what was the optimum contact patch pressure. I was frustrated that i found nothing at the time.
But now i realize that the optimum pressure would be different depending on how sticky the tire is (ambient temperature and tire temp affects that) what surface your on (asphalt, gravel, snow, ice).
And your contact patch size changes based on your speed and lateral force.
Also its hard to measure surface area of some tread patterns.
So it sounds to me like theres too many variables to figure it out.
Or has someone done this?

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[Advancedynamix]

I went 185 because thats what i could get. My next tire will be 165 55 15 federals.

185 will be good for autocross in your bp car with weight forward and lots of negative camber. Your fine there.

[skeeters_keeper]

Wider spins easier. 165mm wide tires will grip better than 195mm tires on these cars. It's due to the pressure on the contact patch. Narrow tires have a higher contact patch pressure.

This. My BP with 165 achilles on 14" wheels spins a lot less than my SOHC B6 did with 185/60-14 federal 912s. The extra weight and moving the engine forward helps too, but 4-5 years ago I was on the wider is better boat. But at least for street compounds it seems like 165 is a dang good width.
We put 155/55-13s on Chris's SOHC B6 and they hook up better than my 185s did too, and can take a stupid amount of lateral forces. They are on super light 5" wide honda VX wheels and IMO provide an even more "go cart" feel than my car, and we are running almost identical suspension.

For something making the kind of power that overkill is making and with the opportunity to warm the tires up when drag racing (burnout), Mike may find that the 185/60s in such a soft compound work pretty well in a straight line. There is also a lot more weight in the front of that car. Best thing to do is try them, try some others, and see what works for what you're trying to do.

[mikemounlio]

I went 185 because thats what i could get. My next tire will be 165 55 15 federals.

[Advancedynamix]

Watching the speedometer is not a very accurate measure of how fast a FWD car accelerates (not like a bike, which is much easier to feel wheelspin.) With wheel spin, the speedometer needle will move faster, but your actual acceleration will slow down. It is very hard to feel wheel spin on a lightweight car. Also, the higher the gear your in, the harder it is to feel the wheel spin in a FWD car. It's very common to hear drivers of these cars say, "It spins in the first three gears but then hooks up." The truth is, the car is probably still spinning the tires, but not as drastically. Wheel spin is slow. Why do you think they make such a big deal about traction control in modern racing? Having been a part of many forms of racing for most of my life, I can say first hand, races are won and lost more due to traction than any other factor. This holds true for anything from formula 1 to NHRA top fuel to the local stop n go street scene. HP is easy to bolt on, it's traction that will give you an advantage.

[Advancedynamix]

Shoot im spinning 15x8 wheels with 340 wear rate tires with the factory b3. If you wanna lay down the power you have you will probably need 225s and at most 200 wear rate. Look into BFG Rivals, great tire for your money.

Wider spins easier. 165mm wide tires will grip better than 195mm tires on these cars. It's due to the pressure on the contact patch. Narrow tires have a higher contact patch pressure. As a result, the contact patch will be longer (with tire compression) on the narrower tire. The contract patch on the wide tire will be wider, but shorter. The wide contact patch is better for tire stability under lateral (cornering) force, but the narrower tire is better for acceleration and braking. The proper tire width is relative to the vehicle weight. Your b3 easily spins a wide tire, but if you were running a narrower tire, you'd hook up better. Eventually, you'll get so wide that your little b3 just can't spin that much tire weight, but that's not the same as grip.
My 165mm wide 400 tread wear street tires get more driving grip than my 185mm 80 tread wear race tires until my race tires build heat (which wouldn't happen often if I was on the street, I've gotta push the car to heat them up).
Wider tires gripping better is a misconception from people watching race cars with slicks and thinking it's the tire width is what makes the race cars stick better. There are many other factors to consider with race cars. With street cars, on street tires, it's a simple matter of vehicle weight vs. Tire width and composition. A festiva is 1700-1900lbs in most cases. A festiva is also a FWD car. FWD cars tend to transfer weight off the driving wheels when they are accelerating, which means they require a narrower tire than an equally weighted RWD car, in order to get maximum grip.
If a bias ply, or "wrinkle wall" tire is used, it can be considerably wider, as these tires are designed to have a longer contact patch, and the tire compound is designed to heat up quickly.

[mikemounlio]

I have a set of federal UHP 595 in my garage waiting on my slow arse to finish the motor mounts. Soon i will have the meat the car needs.

I have some 260 tread 185 60 13. They are crazy soft for now (will heat cycle to a bit harder form).

Also i have the mfactory diff going in as we speak! Soon ill either put the power down or ill be spinnin both tires!


I think Chinese 13 would be an upgrade compared to whats on it now...