Tata Nano to the U.S? Hmmm...

[MONSOON]

The Festiva wasnt meant to be a top shelf vehicle either. It was considered a throwaway. I believe early Escorts were also.

[Safety Guy]

I believe we should have some more choice as to how much safety equipment to have on our cars. I'm single and I've been in two wrecks in my life: one in a parking lot at under 15mph when I was around twenty and the other when I was 33 or so.

I wear my seat belts and plan to put a roll bar or even partial cage in Twinstiva, my dream car, when I "upgrade" her to "Speedstiva."

If I had a family I wouldn't use a Festiva as the main transportation, especially with a baby. Minimum size would be a Focus or ZX/2.

However, we've been sold the idea that we have to constantly improve on safety to the detriment of other qualities, like AFFORDABILITY, FUEL ECONOMY and SIMPLICITY.

I don't want air bags in my cars right now, and I'll upgrade the seatbelts and structural integrity as I see fit, as I can afford it.

I don't need power windows, glove compartments and snot pickers. I don't need bells and whistles, gizmos and gadgets.

With eight air bags, electronic stability control, gov't crash tests front and side, etc., there is a tradeoff: bigger, heavier cars that cost arms and legs. I don't like it.

I don't see why the current Euro Tata Nano shouldn't be imported right now, provided it meets emission requirements. That's it. Just like we should be able to buy and ship Kia Prides and other newer Festivas into our country.

Let the people have what they want, not what the gov't Safety Nazis say we can have.

Compare our standard of living, our conveniences, and our 1990s safety standards to the rest of the world and we stack up quite nicely.

I will put my money and my efforts into what I decide I need for my life. I don't need Big Government doing it for me.

Now look at the trillion dollar "bailout plans" and everything I said is pretty much flushed down the toilet. I don't think it'll work. It's just delaying the pain. Crazy.

We're all gonna die in the end. Why not let folks live how they want as long as they don't interfere in others' lives?

Karl

[Lannis]

Karl - Well, unfortunately, your life isn't independent from mine.

If you have a wreck in an unsafe car, and are disabled for the rest of your life, then either my insurance premiums or my tax dollars are going towards paying for the millions of dollars of care you'll require for the rest of your life. So unless you agree in advance to be put on an ice floe and set adrift if you require massive medical care, I'm going to have some say in automobile safety features.

How MUCH say is a debatable question, and gets debated every election cycle.

I ride a motorcycle when I'm not in the Festiva, but it's ATGATT - All the Gear, All the Time. Helmet, gloves, boots, armor. So that shows which end of the debate I would probably be at; the "let me alone" part!

Where are people getting the idea that the Nano will go 65 MPH? All of the Indian road tests on the actual cars say about 45 MPH, and that's top speed, not something the car can do all the time.

I'd love to have a Citroen 2CV, but I'd stay away from this Tata Nano for a bit .....

Lannis

[FB71]

Where are people getting the idea that the Nano will go 65 MPH? All of the Indian road tests on the actual cars say about 45 MPH, and that's top speed, not something the car can do all the time.

that top speed was published by Tata for the Euro-spec car, not the Indian domestic market car.

[FB71]

Karl - Well, unfortunately, your life isn't independent from mine.

If you have a wreck in an unsafe car, and are disabled for the rest of your life, then either my insurance premiums or my tax dollars are going towards paying for the millions of dollars of care you'll require for the rest of your life. So unless you agree in advance to be put on an ice floe and set adrift if you require massive medical care, I'm going to have some say in automobile safety features.

How MUCH say is a debatable question, and gets debated every election cycle.

more evidence the insurance industry has too much influence in our government. Nothing but legalized extortion, if you ask me.

[Safety Guy]

Well, it's more the idea of the Nano: basic, no frills transportation that gets high mpgs.

I"m not for going back to the fifties and not requiring seatbelts in cars. I'm angry with the way airbags were shoved down our throats, with overpowered first gen bags that were designed to protect those who DIDN'T wear their seatbelts. That really made me angry, since I always have worn mine. Why should my safety be reduced to TRY to protect those who didn't care?

I hate these half-passive automatic belts I'm stuck with until I can replace them. I loved the manual belts in my '89. Why was I not consulted? Why is my life put in danger by the attitude that I'm too stupid to wear my seatbelts so the government will mandate ones that go on themselves, imperfectly, while folks who don't wear theirs simply unbuckle them and drive without belts anyways!

As far as insurance goes, those who do riskier things should pay a higher premium; that is, those who buy cars with the twenty-six front, side and trunk airbags, with the computer generated stability control tower and 112 channel emergency alert broadcast with the custom voice control module (male, female, English, Spanish, sign language, etc.) will pay less because some study says their car is "safer."

I am sick of technology being used to try to save fools' lives, often at the expense of those of us who really do care, and wish to balance safety with simplicity and cost-effectiveness.

The fact is, we can't "have it all," and even if we want "most of it all," we will have to pay for it. Right now, we're paying for it by being dependant on foreign oil and a lack of choice of ultrasmall, fuel efficient cars.

Back in the late eighties and early nineties, we had Festivas and Metros and Swifts and Justys and a few other cars under 2000 pounds.

Now, the lightest "small" cars are over 2400 pounds! What happened was we sacrificed fuel economy and high efficiency for increased safety and of course, "fashionable largess" in the form of the bloated SUV trend. And the "bloat" worked its way down to the Civics (which now are bigger than the original Accord) and other cars that started "small."

This is all probably intimately related to the "credit mania" that has ruined our economy. "We can have it all" was the mantra.

Now, we're in deep trouble. Turns out we couldn't have it all! Ha!

But I will admit, I hate luxury items on cars. But my hatred is magnified since I can't buy what I want "off the shelf," since it is no longer made. "Simplicity" went out of fashion. (It doesn't impress the neighbors, you see.)

I think technology should primarily be used to SIMPLIFY things, not make them more complicated, heavy, expensive and bloated!

But I'm in the minority:

My cars are paid off.
I have a reduced "consumer (and carbon) footprint."
I can fix them myself, making me less dependant on others.

This is exactly what our government works to foul up! Citizens are encouraged to be in debt, rely upon high tech stuff we won't be able to fix themselves, and we are encouraged to look to the government to solve our problems.

Look at all the use of the word "consumer" these days.

Where did "citizen" go?

I see myself as primarily a "citizen," not a "consumer." In fact I am working to consume less.

Karl

[FB71]

I see myself as primarily a "citizen," not a "consumer." In fact I am working to consume less.

Karl

ooorah!!!

You hit the nail on the head, Karl.

[geezerstiva]

so you're saying that if the festiva was still around, it would have 4 doors, weigh 3000 pounds, and have 15 airbags? yeah i can believe that...
You said it perfectly! amen!!

[Jimmy812]

Last year, when gas was still $3+ per gallon and the US MFGs were starting to have major problems, I sent a letter to both the McCain and Obama campaign outlining a proposal to create and American Kei Car class. It would be for cars smaller than 11-12 feet in length, weighing less than 2000lbs, having engines smaller than 1.0 liter (600cc preferably).

The proposal included:

Relaxed safety regulations for vehicles that fit into the class (no mandatory airbags, no mandatory tire pressure monitors, etc.)

No sales tax charged on the purchase of said vehicles.

No annual tax - reduced registration fees.

Vehicles MUST be built in the United States.

Low interest loans for companies to convert a factory (any company, any factory) to produce such vehicles or components.

An 18 month grace period to begin production inside the US - before that date, captive imports (rebadges) would be allowed as long as the company was in the process of converting a factory - also private importing of such cars, new or used, from other markets would be allowed for 2 years.

Relaxed DOT regulations on imported or captive import vehicles during that time.

Special Kei Car only parking spaces in urban areas - possibly at other area too such as Kei Car only spots adjacent to handicapped spots at malls and grocery stores.

Exemption from parking meter fees for 1 hour of parking.

Access to the car-pool lane for solo commuters.

Tax incentive for the purchase of such vehicles - similar to what Hybrids have - that may offset 50% of the purchase price of such vehicles.

Tax incentives to insurance companies to keep insurance rates low or to include the cost of insurance of the Kei car as part of a larger family car. So someone's insurance on their SUV would also cover their Kei car commuter to incourage their purchase as a second car.

Creation of a government funded private consortium of manufacturers that build these cars in the US to share technology, and possibly large components to reduce development cost. (so the Ford, GM, and Chrysler version may share engines, transmissions, and suspension, but create their own body in their own style).


It would be a great thing for them to do now.

It would stimulate consumer purchasing of new vehicles.

It would further reduce demand for petroleum hopefully delaying the inevtiable $4/gallon prices.

It would give US MFGs a class of vehicles to produce Domestically that fit into a category recognized by the rest of the world, hopefully positioning them to be competitive on an international basis again with US built vehicles.

It would help stem the tide of the likes of the Fiat 500 and other small cars that are beginning to make the transition to the US before they have all the market share and the US MFG's are once again playing catch-up.

The US MFGs could start importing cars and rebadging them immediately to stimulate sales at the dealership level now, converting plants would stimulate construction and machinery manufacturing job creation now, and once the plants are up and running, it would create long term Manufacturing jobs.


The rest of the world has been creating fun, unique, stylish, functional cars that fit into this mold for a long time. As much as Americans love their huge engines and seating for 8, it's just not something people NEED in a car to get them around every day. At the same time, cars produced in the United States no longer sell in great numbers anywhere else in the world because they are built to a formula that doesn't work well anywhere else in the world - and cars that fit into the Japanese Kei class or into European small cars classes are not allowed in the US because of safety concerns.

Success in the future for US MFGs will require them learning to fight in that weight class. This is a plan to help them do that.

It is possible to make a small, efficient, cheap cars that suits everyone's style.


Honda Beat is a Kei car - mid engined, roadster.


Mazda AZ-1 is a Kei car - mid engined exotic.


Suzuki Cappuccino is a Kei car - front engine, RWD hard top convertible.


Suzuki Alto Works is a Kei car - AWD rally car.


Suzuki Wagon R is a Kei car - big pimpin'.


Mitsubishi Pajero Mini is a Kei car - offroader.


Mitsubishi "i" is a Kei car - practical family car with fashion sense.

The Ford Festiva is about 3 inches too long to fit into the Kei Car class (FMS bumpers cut that 3 inches off) so they certainly can be made to fit real America adults inside.

I'd love to see what a Kei car with classic American muscle styling might look like.


I, for one, welcome the Nano if they can import it cheaply. I'd RATHER see it built in the US, but if the US can't wake up and see the writing on the wall, so be it.

[MJD]

just remember, it's not designed to be a top-bin vehicle. Its designed to mobilize the citizens of a burgeoning nation. It is what it is; basic transportation.

And for basic transportation, that is quite a car to the 3'rd world peoples....especially as there very first car !
I would think so.

:p

[chrisofna]

That Wagon R is pure awesome, that and the Beat, and the Cappucino is like my top "I want that car but America sucks so I wont have it" car. The AZ1 was a close second. I think we should have the same importation law that Canada has, just to give us more options.

[Safety Guy]

I like most of Jimmy's ideas!

Karl

[FFW]

i would trade my cars for these pocket monsters