Replacing the O2 Sensor

[boydg1]

Replacing the O2 Sensor

…. After approximately 23 years and 488,000 miles and starting to run a bit rough I decided to change the O2 oxygen sensor since converting to a regular carburetor will be in the not to distant future, I hope. On and off it took about three days to get the O2 sensor out. Starting with a HOT exhaust manifold and spraying with different penetrants and allowing them the time to work their magic, and of course using additional MAP gas heat I finally got it out. For a solid 4 hours on and off I rattled everything on that car with the air gun. I had tools falling off the bumper and everywhere else. My head rattled for an hour after I quit one day and after dinner I still could feel the vibration in my body that's how tough it was to get this one out, but I got her out, something so simple. Thought I would show some pics of the finished product and an assortment of some of the tools I used. That big black bar is 4 feet long. :thumbup:

[boydg1]

Replacing the O2 Sensor ( Con't )

Replacing the O2 Sensor (Con't )

[Grey Vw]

Thats crazy lol

[takeone51]

make a diffrence?

[boydg1]

....Too early to tell but the engine is running definitely smoother so far.

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make a diffrence?

[FestYboy]

get that BOSCH unit off of there, use Denso. you'll see better MPG.

[boydg1]

get that BOSCH unit off of there, use Denso. you'll see better MPG.

…. It was my intention to use DENSO but was told by the store they could NOT order it even though they carried some DENSO's, I suspect large volume replacements. It is my intent to end up with a DENSO. One of the interesting things I discovered in this purchase was according to the store : DENSO part # 234-1000 selling for around $20.00, you crimped your own LUG on the wire. For DENSO part # 234-1019 it comes WITH the LUG already crimpted at around twice the price or about $40.00!!! I don't know about you but I can crimp my own LUG and save $20.00 approximately.
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…. I need to ask you a couple of questions; How do you know the DENSO will give better gas mileage?
Is this from your own experience or perhaps a DENSO fact sheet or some other qualified reference. I have NOT been able to find out squat about any O2 sensors. It seems this is a closely guarded secret.
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…. The other question I would like to know about is and perhaps, if you know, you can shed some light on: Festie's O2 senor has ONE wire. Other cars have 2, 3, and 4 wires coming out of the O2 sensor. The price of these O2 senors range from roughly $20.00 to 7,8 times that amount or roundly $150-$160 a piece, WHY?? All of these UNITS do about the same job but very greatly in price, model and manufacturer. Different manufactures offer 2, 3, and possible 4 different model O2 sensor for the same vehicle and other than price, NO explanation other than that is given (price), again I ask why?? The stores that sell these don't know either, other than PICK ONE which is totally unacceptable for me and probably many others on this forum. Not trying to put you on the spot, just picking your brain a little.

Thanks
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[boydg1]

.... Car runs SUPER. Took it on an approximate 35 mile short trip and I could NOT ask for a better running car, even on the interstate. With the new O2 and the EGR cleaned out (http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=34252 ) and the computer reset for an old HIGH mileage car like mine, just SUPER. :sunny:
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....Too early to tell but the engine is running definitely smoother so far.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by takeone51
make a diffrence?

.

[FestYboy]

…. It was my intention to use DENSO but was told by the store they could NOT order it even though they carried some DENSO's, I suspect large volume replacements. It is my intent to end up with a DENSO. One of the interesting things I discovered in this purchase was according to the store : DENSO part # 234-1000 selling for around $20.00, you crimped your own LUG on the wire. For DENSO part # 234-1019 it comes WITH the LUG already crimpted at around twice the price or about $40.00!!! I don't know about you but I can crimp my own LUG and save $20.00 approximately.
.
…. I need to ask you a couple of questions; How do you know the DENSO will give better gas mileage?
Is this from your own experience or perhaps a DENSO fact sheet or some other qualified reference. I have NOT been able to find out squat about any O2 sensors. It seems this is a closely guarded secret.
.
…. The other question I would like to know about is and perhaps, if you know, you can shed some light on: Festie's O2 senor has ONE wire. Other cars have 2, 3, and 4 wires coming out of the O2 sensor. The price of these O2 senors range from roughly $20.00 to 7,8 times that amount or roundly $150-$160 a piece, WHY?? All of these UNITS do about the same job but very greatly in price, model and manufacturer. Different manufactures offer 2, 3, and possible 4 different model O2 sensor for the same vehicle and other than price, NO explanation other than that is given (price), again I ask why?? The stores that sell these don't know either, other than PICK ONE which is totally unacceptable for me and probably many others on this forum. Not trying to put you on the spot, just picking your brain a little.

Thanks
.

ok sorry to get back to you so late, but here's what i know: the denso swings a full volt (.100 to 1.100 with a .550 center) where the bosch swings .8-.85 volts (.100 to .900-.950 with a .450 cener) this i know from spec sheets and my own experiance. given that info, and the fact that the factory O2 is a denso, the ECU is tuned to use a Denso and it's .550 center stoich reading.

for the other O2 sensors, the 2 wire carries it's own ground wire, the 3 wire has a heating element for quicker closed loop operation (heating element gets it's own ground i think) and then the 4 wire is seperate grounds for the signal and heater elements. then there's the 5 wire (wide band that has a 2.5 volt center (swings from .500 to 5.00 vDC) has a higher resolution for better tuning. the price differance is in the manufacture and plug type and then what vehicle it's for (BMWs O2 will cost more than a Mini which cost more than a GM but they all do the same thing....)

[boydg1]

…. I don't want you to think I forgot about you but I have been having trouble the past 24 days NOT receiving replies from my postings here on FordFestiva.com (Ref. http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...936#post401936 POST #31). I wanted to wait until that was cleared up before I responded to you. Getting back to the O2 sensors, I do appreciate the info you POSTED, gave me some real good in-site into O2's, and anyone else that reads this should appreciate it as well. All that you said, really makes good sense but you know for the life of me I cannot understand a company like Denso having two different part numbers, # 234-1000 selling for around $20.00 you crimped your own LUG on the wire and part # 234-1019 selling for twice the other just because it has a crimped lug on it and the other doesn't, just doesn't make good sense. But then again I guess that is just considered “GOOD BUSINESS”. And, of course, if you are willing to pay that's what you get. Just a little rant, it's things like this that just amaze me.

Thanks again for the info.

.............:thumbup:...........

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ok sorry to get back to you so late, but here's what i know: the denso swings a full volt (.100 to 1.100 with a .550 center) where the bosch swings .8-.85 volts (.100 to .900-.950 with a .450 cener) this i know from spec sheets and my own experiance. given that info, and the fact that the factory O2 is a denso, the ECU is tuned to use a Denso and it's .550 center stoich reading.

for the other O2 sensors, the 2 wire carries it's own ground wire, the 3 wire has a heating element for quicker closed loop operation (heating element gets it's own ground i think) and then the 4 wire is seperate grounds for the signal and heater elements. then there's the 5 wire (wide band that has a 2.5 volt center (swings from .500 to 5.00 vDC) has a higher resolution for better tuning. the price differance is in the manufacture and plug type and then what vehicle it's for (BMWs O2 will cost more than a Mini which cost more than a GM but they all do the same thing....)

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[sc72]

o2 sensor

It is strange how prices fluctuate, at the local Auto Zone i bought this Denso with part #234-1010 the end was already attached and it cost $21 and change.

[boydg1]

.... Just blows my mind, nothing like consistence. :munky2:

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It is strange how prices fluctuate, at the local Auto Zone i bought this Denso with part #234-1010 the end was already attached and it cost $21 and change.

[Twistiva]

Replacing the O2 Sensor

…. After approximately 23 years and 488,000 miles and starting to run a bit rough I decided to change the O2 oxygen sensor since converting to a regular carburetor will be in the not to distant future, I hope.

boydg1 -

First, let me say: HOLY CRAP! You've driven 488,000 miles on your Festy?! Gotta tell my wife that. She thinks my Festy at 176,000 is ready for the junk heap. I'm gonna tell her there's TONS more life left in my car.

Second, ignorant question here....O2 sensors are on carb'd and fuel injected engines, right? (I'm at work right now, can't get to my shop manual.) Not sure why converting to a regular carb factored in to your decision to replace the O2 sensor.

Are both the DENSO #234-1000 and #234-1019 single wire sensors?

Great post!

[boydg1]

Hi Twistiva, let me make one small correction. It's 480,000 miles, I must NOT have proofread this thoroughly enough, my apologies. You can tell your wife if she forces you to sell it I would most likely buy it!!:happy7:
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.... Your second question is correct, there are O2's on both carb's and FI's. I replaced my O2 because my Festie ran sooooo bad it quit. I put a BOSH in, only because it was available when I needed it, and it was the difference between NIGHT and DAY, She's running like NEW for a car that has this amount of miles on it. I am getting ready to replaced the BOSH with a DENSO which is more tuned for Festie, also better gas milage.
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.... Your third question are both DENSO's single wire O2's? The answer is YES. Here is the DENSO address and parts list for the Festiva. This should be a good starter for you.
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....Have Fun :grin:
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http://www.densoaftermarket.com/catalog/catalog.php?part=o2sn

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Catalog Search Results

Trim/Engine Part # Notes Qty Pos No Air Fuel Ratio Sensor results. We may not make this part for this application.Oxygen Sensor L, LX Engine: L4 (1.3L)
VIN: K
234-1000
O.E. Quality Replacement Sensor N/A Upstream L, LX Engine: L4 (1.3L)
VIN: K
234-1019
O.E. Quality Replacement Sensor N/A Upstream Click on any of the icons for available documents. Click the part number to find a dealer in your area.

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boydg1 -

First, let me say: HOLY CRAP! You've driven 488,000 miles on your Festy?! Gotta tell my wife that. She thinks my Festy at 176,000 is ready for the junk heap. I'm gonna tell her there's TONS more life left in my car.

Second, ignorant question here....O2 sensors are on carb'd and fuel injected engines, right? (I'm at work right now, can't get to my shop manual.) Not sure why converting to a regular carb factored in to your decision to replace the O2 sensor.

Are both the DENSO #234-1000 and #234-1019 single wire sensors?

Great post!

[Twistiva]

boydg1 -

Bought a DENSO 234-1900 tonight from Autozone on my way home from work. ~$40.00. I'm easing my way into wrenching on my Festy so I thought the extra $20 for the pre-crimped verson would be smarter. In 22 yrs of ownership I don't think my 88L has ever had the O2 sensor changed. I know for certain I never did it. Doubtful I ever had a mechanic do it, either. Gas mileage is 33-36 MPG. After 1 year in Korea it had horrible problems stalling in idle and then after I fixed that it would sometimes die loading it up above idle. Maybe a bad O2 sensor was part of that?

Thanks for the detailed walk-thru about how to do this. For a newbie like me, that is invaluable.

Cheers -

Twister