Does this seem like a decent deal?

[TaylorDFW]

I've already checked it out. Nothing special.
I'm going to look at the one in Dallas South that was put on the yard yesterday.

Do you happen to remember the condition of driver's side rear quarter panel?

[Larry Hampton]

The rope is used instead of air to keep the valve from falling down into the cylinder while you take the keeper and spring off to replace the.valve stem seal.

If that happened, it would be a lot harder to get out without removing the head than a piece of shrink tubing and would take 7 months and 30,000 replies and you'd still have to remove the head.

[TaylorDFW]

The rope is used instead of air to keep the valve from falling down into the cylinder while you take the keeper and spring off to replace the.valve stem seal.

If that happened, it would be a lot harder to get out without removing the head than a piece of shrink tubing and would take 7 months and 30,000 replies and you'd still have to remove the head.

So basically shove the rope up into the spark plug socket to maintain the internal pressure?

[Larry Hampton]

Yeah, a softer rope is better, you try to coil it up in the cylinder, leaving a piece hanging out, then you rotate the crank up via the crank bolt to push the rope up tighter in the cylinder, then when you remove the keeper, the valve stays in place.

The air method works, but if you have bad valve seats, if you bump the valve where it loses pressure, it could fall down.

The second sentance wasnt for you, it was poking fun at the 6 page post about how to get shrink wrap and a wire tie out of your cylinder, don't know if you saw that one.

[htchbck]

If that happened, it would be a lot harder to get out without removing the head than a piece of shrink tubing and would take 7 months and 30,000 replies and you'd still have to remove the head.

If the valve did happen to fall into the head, what sort of combination of tweezers/magnets/pliers/tractor beams/flamethrowers/cheeseburgers would you recommend to aid in removal?

[DriverOne]

Cheeseburger... Mmmmmmmm....

[Safety Guy]

Quit it! I'm hungry and trying to stay inside instead of running to a fast food joint!

Ummmmm, cheese...burrrrguurrrrrrrrrrrrr...............

I'll be back. Gotta test drive Aqua.

Karl

[Larry Hampton]

You MIGHT be able to put some acetylene in the cylinder, put the plug in and crank it to pop it back up, but you'd have to be mighty swift of hand to grab it as it came out.

Then again, it might shoot the whole thing out thru the head or the rod thru the pan.

[Zanzer]

^^ Probably the latter, acetylene gets pretty volatile at pressures over 15psi

It would be fun to watch though (from a distance) :mrgreen:

[drddan]

I understand this is important to keep the valve from falling in, and also why you guys recommend using a rope, but from the way it looked the valve seal sits on top of the head? I'm not really seeing how it would fall in. But then again, this is all just from videos and tutorials.

Thanks!

Taylor

Here is a quik rundown of a valve seal change.
(You do need to get a haynes manual-it has the answers you need for a lot of projects)

The valve SEALS are on top of the head. They slide over the STEM of the valve. The valve itself is the thing that can fall into the head. The seal seats on a raised boss, through which the stem of the valve sticks through the top of the head. This is where the seal and spring attach to the valve stem.
The valve SPRING needs to be removed, the seals are under the springs.
An attachment is available to thread into the spark plug hole, to which attaches an air line from an air compressor, pressurizing the chamber to hold the valve up when then spring is removed, OR enough ROPE coiled into the cylinder to hold the valve in the up position while the spring is changed will also work, but is time consumming.
Once the valve is secured by air or rope, the spring compressor is attached, the spring compressed, 2 little "keepers" removed, and now the spring can be removed, revealing the valve seal. This can be removed with a pair of pliers, rotating the old seal while pulling up on the seal. New seal should be oiled then tapped down with a socket the same diameter as the metal on the seal. Once solidly down the spring is put back, the 2 keepers inserted back into their grooves and spring released.
Repeat on the other valves.

Important!: Be VERY carefull NOT to drop one of the "keepers" during removal/install, as they can fall into a hole on the head!
Ask me how I know!

[Larry Hampton]

Zanzer, since you know Fox's and Festy's, are the valve stem seals on Festy's like the cheapies you get for a SBF that just slide down the valve stem? Or can you put the posi-locs on it?

[Zanzer]

^^ Yup, they just drive on. But you have to be very careful because they are a little more fragile than the SBF seals. Once they bottom out you gotta stop or they'll compress the 2 parts of the seal body that lock the Viton into place and cause a small tear near the bottom rim of the seal.

All the seals I've seen so far are just a standard steel tubing type body (even the Fel-Pros) you may be able to get a posi-lock design using a universal seal that has the correct dimensions for the Fetsy guide and stem. I haven't really looked into it yet since most of my current builds have been stockers and the standard Fel-Pro seals have served me well. I will be looking for some nice PTFE ones with posi-locks in the near future

EDIT: If you're referring to the spring that helps seal around the stem, then yes they have them. I was referring to type that has a sprung body as well. Those types typically have the entire seal made of Viton or PTFE and a spring/band type body that locks it around the guide. The Festiva ones are more of a modular design where the seal material is held in place by the steel body. Sorry I didn't clarify

[Zanzer]

A pic is worth a thousand words so.....


Heres' the Viton Festiva seal:



Here's the a standard SBF seal with the PTFE insert:



And here's the ones where the whole seal is PTFE with a spring body and posi lock. I use these on my SBF/BBF performance builds. These are actually the same price or cheaper than the standard Viton B series seal. Sad huh?

[TaylorDFW]

Here is a quik rundown of a valve seal change.
(You do need to get a haynes manual-it has the answers you need for a lot of projects)

The valve SEALS are on top of the head. They slide over the STEM of the valve. The valve itself is the thing that can fall into the head. The seal seats on a raised boss, through which the stem of the valve sticks through the top of the head. This is where the seal and spring attach to the valve stem.
The valve SPRING needs to be removed, the seals are under the springs.
An attachment is available to thread into the spark plug hole, to which attaches an air line from an air compressor, pressurizing the chamber to hold the valve up when then spring is removed, OR enough ROPE coiled into the cylinder to hold the valve in the up position while the spring is changed will also work, but is time consumming.
Once the valve is secured by air or rope, the spring compressor is attached, the spring compressed, 2 little "keepers" removed, and now the spring can be removed, revealing the valve seal. This can be removed with a pair of pliers, rotating the old seal while pulling up on the seal. New seal should be oiled then tapped down with a socket the same diameter as the metal on the seal. Once solidly down the spring is put back, the 2 keepers inserted back into their grooves and spring released.
Repeat on the other valves.

Important!: Be VERY carefull NOT to drop one of the "keepers" during removal/install, as they can fall into a hole on the head!
Ask me how I know!

THANK YOU for this! Now I understand how the valve can fall into the cylinder :violent1:

AND how the rope can achieve the same effect as compressed air in keeping the valve positioned to where it cannot fall down. However, the rope technique sure sounds like a royal PITA.

[Larry Hampton]

Wow, I was thinking of the old umbrella seals. Seems I have my terminology mixed up.

I have the valvecover off the blue car right now, awaiting black crinkle paint. Maybe ought to go ahead and replace them while it's opened up.

Although...... the P/O had the head resurfaced when it overheated, I'm wondering if he replaced the seals..... hmmmmmmmmm.........

Taylor, lots of guys use the rope technique when they don't have a compressor. Plus, back in the day, it wasn't as easy to get the air fitting to hold the valve closed, most guys welded a male air fitting to an old spark plug that the porcelin had been busted out of.