MPG equivalents for Electric Vehicles.

[skimsucka]

PEDAL POWER FTW

[Darlo]

ALthough I do agree it is mainly a waste of money to buy a Prius, I do hate it when people continue to spread bad info like "Oh and a prius battery will last 5 to 10 years according to battery experts , and costs 7 grand." and many others......... here is an small portion of the Wiki page for the Prius, regarding this issue.......http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius

"Battery life cycle

As the Prius reached ten years of being available in the U.S. market, in February 2011 Consumer Reports decided to look at the lifetime of the Prius battery and the cost to replace it. The magazine tested a 2002 Toyota Prius with over 200,000 miles on it, and compared the results to the nearly identical 2001 Prius with 2,000 miles tested by Consumer Reports 10 years before. The comparison showed little difference in performance when tested for fuel economy and acceleration. Overall fuel economy of the 2001 model was 40.6 miles per US gallon (5.79 L/100 km; 48.8 mpg-imp) while the 2002 Prius with high mileage delivered 40.4 miles per US gallon (5.82 L/100 km; 48.5 mpg-imp). The magazine concluded that the effectiveness of the battery has not degraded over the long run.[78] The cost of replacing the battery varies between US$2,200 and US$2,600 from a Toyota dealer, but low-use units from salvage yards are available for around US$500.[78]"

Dont mean to offend anyone, just wanted to uncover the facts.....

Ps. Notice that my Festiva gets better mileage than the Prius!......

[litesong]

I do hate it when people continue to spread bad info like "Oh and a prius battery will last 5 to 10 years....... " and many others......... here is an small portion of the Wiki page for the Prius, regarding this issue.......http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius

"Battery life cycle

Consumer Reports ...... magazine tested a 2002 Toyota Prius with over 200,000 miles on it, and compared the results to the nearly identical 2001 Prius with 2,000 miles tested by Consumer Reports 10 years before. The comparison showed little difference in performance when tested for fuel economy and acceleration. Overall fuel economy of the 2001 model was 40.6 miles per US gallon (5.79 L/100 km; 48.8 mpg-imp) while the 2002 Prius with high mileage delivered 40.4 miles per US gallon (5.82 L/100 km; 48.5 mpg-imp). The magazine concluded that the effectiveness of the battery has not degraded over the long run.[78] The cost of replacing the battery varies between US$2,200 and US$2,600 from a Toyota dealer, but low-use units from salvage yards are available for around US$500.[78]"
Ps. Notice that my Festiva gets better mileage than the Prius!......

Thank you for standing for the truth, not the fictions of internal combustion engine lovers who can't see the wonderful elegance & efficiencies of the electric motor & have to make up stories about electric batteries.

However, there are many people getting more mpg than you.... 50mpg & 55mpg-equivalents with their Prius cars..... some even into the 60's. Hypermilers have gotten 90+...... even 100+mpg-equivalents. But the most striking advantage of electric motors & batteries is their mpg in city conditions. Again, many Prius owners get 50+mpg...... in-city. Prius cars are 3000+ pounds, have plenty of air bags, & will out-brake a Festiva. The 2012 Nissan Leaf is between 3400 & 3500 pounds, again with plenty of air bags & will out-brake a Festiva, as well as operate in emergency, rainy, snow & ice conditions better than Festiva. Real-world mpg has been over 100mpg.... as much as 138mpg-equivalents.

I love my Festiva. BECAUSE of its light weight & small dimensions, I have avoided accidents that would have entangled an SUV or other behemoth. However, old Festivas are sadly lacking in modern suspensions, brakes & low cornering weight.

[TominMO]

ALthough I do agree it is mainly a waste of money to buy a Prius, I do hate it when people continue to spread bad info like "Oh and a prius battery will last 5 to 10 years according to battery experts , and costs 7 grand." and many others......... here is an small portion of the Wiki page for the Prius, regarding this issue.......http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius

"Battery life cycle

As the Prius reached ten years of being available in the U.S. market, in February 2011 Consumer Reports decided to look at the lifetime of the Prius battery and the cost to replace it. The magazine tested a 2002 Toyota Prius with over 200,000 miles on it, and compared the results to the nearly identical 2001 Prius with 2,000 miles tested by Consumer Reports 10 years before. The comparison showed little difference in performance when tested for fuel economy and acceleration. Overall fuel economy of the 2001 model was 40.6 miles per US gallon (5.79 L/100 km; 48.8 mpg-imp) while the 2002 Prius with high mileage delivered 40.4 miles per US gallon (5.82 L/100 km; 48.5 mpg-imp). The magazine concluded that the effectiveness of the battery has not degraded over the long run.[78] The cost of replacing the battery varies between US$2,200 and US$2,600 from a Toyota dealer, but low-use units from salvage yards are available for around US$500.[78]"

Dont mean to offend anyone, just wanted to uncover the facts.....

Ps. Notice that my Festiva gets better mileage than the Prius!......

Thanks for the info; I always wondered what the numbers were. Still, overall cost of operation of a Prius is gonna be way higher than a Festy, when you factor in depreciation, insurance, possibly needing professional repairs due to greater complication/special tools needed, etc., so I would stick with a Festy (or Aspire). As far as fuel consumption, they seem to get about the same overall mileage by the average driver, and with the Prius you have to figure in the battery replacement cost. Even if it's $2200, and the original battery lasted ten years, that's $220 per year that you have to figure in as a fuel cost; about $18 per month. Not bad, but you have to include it, and then the Festy looks even better.

We can buy an average 5-speed Festy for say $500; then replace basically everything except the motor and tranny, which we know are very durable: the clutch, Aspire brake swap, steering parts, suspension parts, better wheels and tires, exhaust, seal the motor and give it a fresh tuneup, and still spend only a small fraction of what a Prius would cost--even a used Prius. Plus we spend the repair money as needed, and not have monthly payments (and full-coverage insurance BTW).

Edit: cheapest used Prius I found on the St. Louis Craigslist was $11K.

[Darlo]

I think I said this before, but I once calculated the break even point for buying a brand new prius, vs a brand new Yaris. And with just accounting for the extra initial cost of the prius, and its better mpg, you would have to drive the Prius over 200,000 miles before breaking even. This is assuming they have the same maintenance costs (which I am sure they dont).

[litesong]

I think I said this before, but I once calculated the break even point for buying a brand new prius, vs a brand new Yaris. And with just accounting for the extra initial cost of the prius, and its better mpg, you would have to drive the Prius over 200,000 miles before breaking even. This is assuming they have the same maintenance costs (which I am sure they dont).

I guarantee that if a Prius & yaris are mostly in city driving conditions, the Prius will pay for itself much sooner than 200,000 miles.

If you really care about mpg, I guarantee the Prius transmission is far more elegant, smooth, efficient, lacking in shift-shock, always connected to the front wheels, & worthier to be experienced than a yaris transmission.

I hate filling up at gas stations. The Prius will travel 270 miles further than the yaris, in-city, before needing to fill.

The Prius has 30% more storage than the yaris. Maximum cargo area in the Prius is very close to 40 cubic feet. You got a cargo number for the yaris?

Prius hybrid parts are warranted for 8 years, 100,000 miles.

Prius rear hip & shoulder rooms are 1.4 inches greater than in yaris. Prius rear leg room is THREE INCHES GREATER than in yaris.

If a 3000+ pound Prius & the 2300 pound Yaris collide in an accident, the Prius will 'pay' for itself well short of 200,000 miles. I'm glad you chose the yaris, while I was in the Prius.... & you had first dibs.

Meanwhile, why does the Prius always have to 'pay' for itself. Few other cars 'pay' for themselves. Most people comparing cars, due to their ability to 'pay' for themselves, hate the other car. In your case, you must doubly hate the Prius.

[Ford Fester]

Im going to throw the ugly factor out there. The prius by far is uglier

[Darlo]

I guarantee that if a Prius & yaris are mostly in city driving conditions, the Prius will pay for itself much sooner than 200,000 miles.

If you really care about mpg, I guarantee the Prius transmission is far more elegant, smooth, efficient, lacking in shift-shock, always connected to the front wheels, & worthier to be experienced than a yaris transmission.

I hate filling up at gas stations. The Prius will travel 270 miles further than the yaris, in-city, before needing to fill.

The Prius has 30% more storage than the yaris. Maximum cargo area in the Prius is very close to 40 cubic feet. You got a cargo number for the yaris?

Prius hybrid parts are warranted for 8 years, 100,000 miles.

Prius rear hip & shoulder rooms are 1.4 inches greater than in yaris. Prius rear leg room is THREE INCHES GREATER than in yaris.

If a 3000+ pound Prius & the 2300 pound Yaris collide in an accident, the Prius will 'pay' for itself well short of 200,000 miles. I'm glad you chose the yaris, while I was in the Prius.... & you had first dibs.

Meanwhile, why does the Prius always have to 'pay' for itself. Few other cars 'pay' for themselves. Most people comparing cars, due to their ability to 'pay' for themselves, hate the other car. In your case, you must doubly hate the Prius.

WOW! Someone goes and makes a simple comparison of costs and there is someone (Prius owner) who gets their nose out of joint!

Simple math here.....looking at JUST costs! OK? ok.....In fact...just for you, Ill do CITY mileage!

Base Yaris brand new = $14,115 (http://www.toyota.com/yaris/)
Base Yaris mpg CITY = 30mpg (http://www.toyota.com/yaris/specs.html)
Base Prius brand new = $23520 (http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/)
Base Prius mpg CITY = 51mpg (http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/specs.html)
Gas price in Washington = $3.667/gallon (http://www.washingtongasprices.com/index.aspx)

SO here we go........

Let x = # of miles driven at break even point.

$23520 + (x/51)($3.667) = $14115 + (X/30)($3.667)
$23520 - $14115 = ((x/30)-(x/51))($3.667)
$9405/$3.668 = (x/30)-(x/51)
2564(30)(51) = 51x - 30x
3923023 = 21x
x = 186,810 miles (aka the number of miles you would have to drive the prius in the city to make up for its extra initial cost)

I hope I did that in small enough steps for everyone as I know it may have been a while for some of you since grade 9/10 (and remember that this was all city mileage!).

Ps. I am not anti-prius, I am pro-logic, math and stats. So sue me, lol............ (Plus that extra 3 INCHES OR REAR LEG ROOM is worth an extra $9400....isnt it?)

[Darlo]

Hope I didnt scare everyone way with the math, lol!:p

[litesong]

Darlo wrote:
WOW! Someone goes and makes a simple comparison of costs and there is someone (Prius owner) who gets their nose out of joint!
Ps. ..... that extra 3 INCHES OR REAR LEG ROOM is worth an extra $9400....isnt it?)

Hope I didnt scare everyone way with the math, lol!
//////////////
litesong wrote:
Triply, you deem yourself victorious. But triply are your thoughts but one pile of dung.
Your biased math is twisted & swarmy. Reducing the Prius-yaris comparison to 3 inches of rear seat legroom, & dismissing my life & death Prius-yaris comparisons is a fool's deep evil. While you mis-count thirty pieces of silver as even, your death in the yaris is assured in any powerful Prius-yaris collision.... but mine is not. & YOU HAD FIRST DIBS.

Again, while you mis-count 30 pieces of silver, you dismiss the THIRTY EIGHT TONS of man-machine generated infra-red energy absorbing CO2 that EACH Prius has or will save over the yaris. Of course, your comparison of Prius with one of the smallest cars for America was only to reduce the importance of the great strides in electrical motor & battery technology. Compared to usual vehicle fare in the U.S., EACH Prius has or will save EIGHTY FIVE TONS of man-machine generated infra-red energy absorbing CO2.

Yes, swarminess is posted in your forehead, your brains posted not in your head, but stuck on a spear of bias, & your math knowledge on the trash heap of a busted education never relieved by effort to ease your stupidity.

[Pu241]

Making friends again litesong?

Yes, I can see you dropping in every three years or so, has entertainment value.

[litesong]

Making friends again litesong?

No friends with 'highest hiney-ness prince poop of darkness, 241 times over his head', which is a distinct & 'de-stinked' advantage.

[Safety Guy]

I'm not crazy about "full hybrid" technology. They use more precious metals. Every one I know of comes with power windows and other luxury options which add cost, complexity, weight and use electricity that could be better used for locomotion.

They are mainly for upscale folks, and most po' folks can't afford to even consider them. Certain repairs will cost big money.

My view of the utility of all electric cars would be as slow speed urban commuters, with speeds up to around 35 mph and ranges of around fifty miles. These would be mostly stripped down versions which reduce costs, use less advanced technology, lead acid batteries, etc. They would be more affordable and maximize driving efficiency in stop and go traffic. Domestic production would be a big plus! But I guess they aren't catching on, or aren't even made? Think of one of these as a second car for short to moderate commutes, or a dedicated car for city folks.

We still live in a very wasteful society, and apparently, luxury sells more than thrift.

There exists other, simpler technology which could be incorporated into today's cars that could make a difference:

-simple DOWNSIZING (almost every new vehicle gains weight!)
-using more lightweight materials, especially smaller wheels and tires (!) to reduce rotating weight (best place to take off weight!)
-"engine turn off at stops" starters
-partial hybridization, using special starters to help get car in motion from stops
-using technology to SIMPLIFY mechanical and electronic features instead of always adding to cost and complexity (which may also make repairs more costly), and REDUCING COSTS instead of increasing them

None of the above should use more precious metals or require importing special parts (over and above what is already done).

Many vehicles still appear to be on an upward spiral of bigger, heavier, more expensive versions, despite the appearance of smaller cars coming to market. In other words, we ain't really getting serious about this.

Now fit the above into the horrible economy and explain to me why companies are still raising prices instead of reversing course to bring back sub-$10K cars?

As far as safety is concerned, are a dozen airbags, rear view cameras and optional "lane change warning systems" really worth it?

Karl

[georgeb]

The Prius is a sissy car.

[Pu241]

No friends with 'highest hiney-ness prince poop of darkness, 241 times over his head', which is a distinct & 'de-stinked' advantage.

Ouch, I'm so hurt, your cutting wit and word smithing are so scathing!:cry_smile:


You ever notice that when some one disagrees with you, you immediately fall to name calling?
Children do this!