Building vs Swapping.

[DriverOne]

Re: Building vs Swapping.

Pfft. Brakes.

[bhazard]

Re: Building vs Swapping.

Building the B3 sounds impractical to me. Fun and challenging, but impractical. The same amount of time and money put into better base engine such as a B8 or BP. Start out at the point you would spend so much effort to reach with the B3.

Better is relative. Better stock for stock maybe. But think about how much 16 valves and springs cost vs 8 or two custom cams vs one...

[Advancedynamix]

Two cams and 16 valves/springs on a commonly modded engine are much cheaper than the components on a not so commonly modded engine. Plus, I haven't heard much need for BP festiva owners to replace both cams, last time I checked the best street performance cam mod going can be had in a junk yard for 15 bucks and doesn't require springs or valves or lifters to be changed. Most of the high HP BP guys are not having valve train problems, it's everything else between the valves and the asphalt that doesn't seem up to the task. Lol.

EDIT: By the way, I'm around 400HP BP builds (Miatas) on a regular basis, and get plenty of phone calls asking what should be done next, my response is usually, "stop wasting your money on that and buy a Festiva."

[Advancedynamix]

I would get better mileage towing it to the track with my B3 !
We just need more parking for more Festiva's built for all the
stuff we can do with them!! I would love to stuff a V8 in there

Have a turbo one..and keep turning it up and replacing broken
stuff with better until I couldn't get tires good enough to hold it!

A VW diesel transplant..That one may be harder than a V8.
The V8 would have to use a 500hp snowmobile clutch
and a jack shaft between the CV shafts to fit. Kinda worried
about the stock radiator and brakes...

Dude what are you smoking up there? Please share!

I want a TDI Festiva pretty bad, and if I come across a cheap crashed but running MK4 v-dub it's going down.

[DriverOne]

Re: Building vs Swapping.

https://ridesafely.com

[FestYboy]

FLOW > Everything

there, fixed.

[blkfordsedan]

Charlie, I'm surprised to hear that you say the bottom end on the B3 is weak! Im not saying you're wrong...just surprised to hear it. I've never had a B3 apart, but when I built my B6, I thought it looked pretty stout...given the HP levels we're talking. Granted, its no Honda, but the crank, rods and main webbing all looked capable of handling anything I could hope to produce with 1.6L and the factory head. I wouldnt think it would have any problems handling <200.....Maybe the B3 is different? Does anyone have an idea of what the actual HP limit is on the block, crank and rods?

On the subject, I've never heard of any B3 or B6 bottom end self destructing. Has anyone ever seen one throw a rod, break a rod bolt or break a block or crank? I had originally planned on doing some mods on the recip assy on my B6, but then I realized that in the years I've been on this forum, and all the guys that abuse these things, I've never heard of a single bottom end failure. Once again, we're not talking about a lot of HP here, but even stock Chevy small blocks break now and then, lol.

[moz]

Building vs Swapping.

Ultimately, most of the things we do to the motor whether it be swap or build is to improve power and torque.
Now the equation that I tend to use (unless its an emotional decision) is:

Power gain/money spent

And

Power gain / time spent

That way you can compare the true value of what you're undertaking.

Eg. ( the figures I'm going to use are just for example purposes)

I'm tuning a B3 na motor

Power gain 40hp

Cost $1000

Time taken 100 hours


That gives you a money score of 0.04hp per dollar spent
And a time score of 0.4 hp per hour

And if I choose to do a b6t conversion (stock engine, no mods on it for this exercise)

Power gain 90hp

Cost $1500

Time taken 150 hours

Money score 0.06 hp per dollar spent

Time score 0.6hp per hour spent on job


So in this case the b6t seems more logical.


Now the scores seem close, but like it was mentioned earlier, you then have to evaluate the engines reliability after the mods are done.


If after doing this you still choose the illogical option, you need to accept that the decision is an emotional one.

[DriverOne]

Re: Building vs Swapping.

B6 SOHC

Power gain: 19hp.

Cost: $400.

Time taken: 32hrs.

$Score: 0.0475 (0.5)

TScore: 0.59375 (0.6)

This is a real-world score from a previously inexperienced installer (me). Now that I know better what I'm doing, I bet I could get the time score closer to 7 or 8.

[DriverOne]

Re: Building vs Swapping.

B6T DOHC

Power gain: 69hp.

Cost: $1200.

Time taken: 142 hrs.

$Score: 0.0575 (0.6)

TScore: 0.48591549 (0.5)

So this is what I figure on a B6T into a carby '88 if I did it (price includes rebuilding the engine)...

[neanderpaul]

As well as if it blows up, you just get another 100$ B3

And then start over with all of the money and rare specialty parts, and time it would take to get the B3 back to 130 hp. But if you keep a BP stock then that actually is the case. Simply replace the the BP with another common, ready to drop in BP. When you drop in a BP it EXTENDS the life of the BP because it is coming out of an 800 lb heavier car. You have reduced the work load on the engine. When you build the B3 the opposite is true. You decrease the life of the built B3. Seems painfully obvious to me. Is the B3 a legend? Absolutely. DOes it need to be built to do a different job than it was designed for? Not in my opinion.

[drumnerd33]

Well im right in the middle of building my b3, matt has done an amazing job on all my work and i cant wait to get it built and running. you guys are talking alot of hp numbers but weight is a big thing... the b3 weighs alot less so thats a + for the b3, also torque is huge for getting your car moving quickly... hp is not everything and matt did get 266 hp to the wheels on a moderate tune, so very streetable. if anybody saw his original thread the torque curve was amazing.... it was completely flat across the rpm range. there will always be people that are gonna have there own opinions about the b3 and thats fine but matt has taken this car to a new level with the things he is offering. if you are sceptical just go to his facebook page and look. Miltonhavoc matt is ready to ship everything to me this week so you are local and can see it in person before i begin assembly you should come by check it out.

[drumnerd33]

also miltonhavoc my heat works great here in colorado, never had any problems with it not getting hot enough even in the negative temps mine heats up quick. maybe bring it over and well look it over and see if we can figure out whats wrong, ill call you tomorrow.

[MiltonHavoc]

Drumnerd33 I will definitely take you up on your offer. My festiva is auto, I read what it takes to swap auto to manual and its definitely too much work when you can just go buy a manual festiva. So, Im kinda just thinking rebuild the bottom end, swap in Matts head and exhaust, and call it a day till I can find a MTX festiva.

P.s. you might just have to take me on a test drive when you get it done. Im free during the week sans Thurs n Fri if you need an extra set of hand.s