Warnings Not to Use ‘E15’ Gas in Your Car | Fox Business Video

[Bert]

Then I have a solution: All the trimmings that the DOT would normally leave on the side of the road could be taken up and processed as fuel, the cleanup from forest fires as well, the electric companies' tree waste, Christmas tree waste, yard waste, all that stuff could be taken to a fuel plant instead of the dump.

There is an innovative outfit headquartered in Ottawa (Iogen Corporation) that has been converting '0 value' sawdust, wood chips, corn stalks etc into bio-fuel, using some sort of enzyme fermentation process but these guys have been at it for 20 years now and still can't produce fuel in any meaningful quantities. It's good that the world is constantly experimenting with new technologies but most of them require more energy input to produce fuel than can be derived from it by end users.
If someday someone can come up with an inexpensive or non-polluting method for harnessing solar energy in order to break down water into constituent hydrogen and oxygen then all of our problems will be solved and the Middle-east can go back into being a desert full of bickering nomads and the landscape of n Alberta won't have to be thoroughly raped and pillaged.

[lessersivad]

The real money is in the Eco-Boost. Turbo charged, direct injected, variable cam timing. Instant torque excellent fuel mileage and low emissions. This is the tech that is going to dominate the market for the next few years. And with the turbo and cam controls, adjusting for E-85 should present little problem.

Not to mention that we now have a 250+ hp Focus RT thanks to this tech.

OK. This conversation is not about tech anymore, it has gone to the same name calling place everything here goes.

Ummm, I'm simply calling them as I see them.

I don't recall asking for an advertisement for the "latest and greatest" that Ford has to offer either but that seems to be the jist of your posts. Not about the original topic which is a warning from AAA to not use E15 in older vehicles.

Now with that out of the way, I will ATTEMPT to stay on the original topic.

So let's say we take an older Festiva ('88/'89) equipped with a carb. We pull up to the pumps to add fuel and the only thing available at the pump is true E15. Not dilluted but actual 15% ethanol mixed in the gasoline.

(NOTE) The example vehicle has previously only run on 100% gasoline up to this point.

What do think the results are going to be as in;

Fuel mileage

Longevity of fuel (in cases where the vehicle may be in the shop for extensive work or storage)

"Cleaning" of the fuel system which MAY occur with the E15 on a 24-25 year old vehicle.

Discuss.

[sketchman]

That was an accidental derailment, and mostly my fault for getting confused, so not so worthy of finger pointing.

The theory sounds fine. Ethanol is 'bad for the engine' technically, but I know guys use E85 to boost the crap out of a setup that they couldn't otherwise, safely, and I've not heard of their engines being eaten up by it. Added to the fact, as someone else mentioned, that we've really had this stuff around for decades, I don't think I'll worry about it. Also the thing where detonation might be caused by lower octane gas being sucked in after all the E is gone. Well, don't all modern engines have knock sensors? IDK, seems like someone else already said. Controversy mongering, basically.

[Bert]

Ummm, I'm simply calling them as I see them.

I don't recall asking for an advertisement for the "latest and greatest" that Ford has to offer either but that seems to be the jist of your posts. Not about the original topic which is a warning from AAA to not use E15 in older vehicles.

Now with that out of the way, I will ATTEMPT to stay on the original topic.

So let's say we take an older Festiva ('88/'89) equipped with a carb. We pull up to the pumps to add fuel and the only thing available at the pump is true E15. Not dilluted but actual 15% ethanol mixed in the gasoline.

(NOTE) The example vehicle has previously only run on 100% gasoline up to this point.

What do think the results are going to be as in;

Fuel mileage

Longevity of fuel (in cases where the vehicle may be in the shop for extensive work or storage)

"Cleaning" of the fuel system which MAY occur with the E15 on a 24-25 year old vehicle.

Discuss.

Shelf life of the fuel is reduced (to about 6 months so I'm led to believe, but who cares if you drive a lot), it really is an effective solvent; meaning you'll want to change the fuel filter sooner than later the first time around, and if you drive a carbed vehicle the air/fuel mixture will be off kilter somewhat, and it'll become a SOB to start (I can truthfully attest to that) in cold weather. Fuel mileage is not going to be radically different but will be lower and so is power. May not be noticable if you have EFI and 2-300 horsepower on hand and rely on an automatic tranny but if you're running a carbed manual and have 58 thoroughbred ponies on tap it probably will be quite noticeable. I also think I read somewhere that E burns cooler than gasoline but I can't see that being detrimental. One thing for sure your tailpipe emissions will be lower: whoopee! Especially since we are pretty miserly on the environment already by virtue of frugal mileage and not insisting on energy consumptive manufacture of brand new cars.

[Movin]

I think the AAA data base currently centers on cars that are about 10 years old. It is not surprising that their customers are finding failures from alcoholism in their cars. Most common is still fuel pumps with a super clean tank and the sock full of black stuff on the inside of the sock. We never saw that failure until alcohol fuel came about.
Years ago I made a trip to North Dakota, Wahpeton or something like that. Alcohol fuel was available on the pump so I decided to try it. I had to adjust my carburetor twice!! First time I had to go up on the main jets as I had been experimenting with fuel economy. Of course the idle settings as well. The second time it was just normal adjustments fallowing a overhaul because the fuel degenerated may accelerator pump piston, the needle tip on the needle and seat and the canister purge valve. These parts had to be blown out of carb passages. A kit was available with parts compatable to the fuel and I had no more problems with the carb, but the fuel pump did the same thing and filled the fuel filter before complete failure. A compatible pump was found and I had no more problems with the fuel other than mpg's

Most of the older fuel injected rigs had similar problems even today they are towed in, I have a fuel pump on the bench to show the customer when she comes in.

I can see AAA looking at their questionairs and giving the advise in their news letters to avoid the fuel where possible. It will save their company money.

As newer technologies become the norm these problems will go away to be replaced by ????? ha. Direct injection being pioneered by BRP and Mitsubishi becomes common in new cars the technology from BRP to run any liquid fuel with less than 10% power difference will likely lead the way to our fuel economy mandates in the near future.

It will be interesting to follow the new pattern failures and the recommendations of companies such as AAA.

[lessersivad]

That was an accidental derailment, and mostly my fault for getting confused, so not so worthy of finger pointing.

The theory sounds fine. Ethanol is 'bad for the engine' technically, but I know guys use E85 to boost the crap out of a setup that they couldn't otherwise, safely, and I've not heard of their engines being eaten up by it. Added to the fact, as someone else mentioned, that we've really had this stuff around for decades, I don't think I'll worry about it. Also the thing where detonation might be caused by lower octane gas being sucked in after all the E is gone. Well, don't all modern engines have knock sensors? IDK, seems like someone else already said. Controversy mongering, basically.

I am asking, in my attempt to get back on the original topic, about an '88/'89 CARBED Festiva that has only been exposed to regular unleaded gas up to the point when E15 is put into the fuel tank. Not E5 or E10.

Nor someone using E85 to run some sort of high compression, turbo'd, super charged, etc., "I can't believe it's not butter" rig.

Let's add that the Festiva in question was driven in an area of the country where regular 'ol 87 octane unleaded was the "normal" fuel to be had since the day the Festiva was purchased.

Then, either by EPA regulations or the possibility the Festiva gets sold to someone else in another part of the country, only E15 is available.

Movin's response is more on par of what I was looking for in regards to what someone may expect if the above scenario and vehicle played out.

[Ford Fester]

Someone is paying her big bucks to lie. There is so many lies in that video. We use e30 in our festivas. I ran e85 in my aspire for 20k miles with no issues at all.

[lessersivad]

Someone is paying her big bucks to lie. There is so many lies in that video. We use e30 in our festivas. I ran e85 in my aspire for 20k miles with no issues at all.

Are the Festivas carbed or injected?

[Ford Fester]

Injected and carved both.

[lessersivad]

Shelf life of the fuel is reduced (to about 6 months so I'm led to believe, but who cares if you drive a lot), it really is an effective solvent; meaning you'll want to change the fuel filter sooner than later the first time around, and if you drive a carbed vehicle the air/fuel mixture will be off kilter somewhat, and it'll become a SOB to start (I can truthfully attest to that) in cold weather. Fuel mileage is not going to be radically different but will be lower and so is power. May not be noticable if you have EFI and 2-300 horsepower on hand and rely on an automatic tranny but if you're running a carbed manual and have 58 thoroughbred ponies on tap it probably will be quite noticeable. I also think I read somewhere that E burns cooler than gasoline but I can't see that being detrimental. One thing for sure your tailpipe emissions will be lower: whoopee! Especially since we are pretty miserly on the environment already by virtue of frugal mileage and not insisting on energy consumptive manufacture of brand new cars.

Geez Bert, for some reason I skipped your post entirely.

I've heard the same about the "shelf life".

I can also understand about changing the fuel filter if it's an effective solvent. (A bit off topic here but biodiesel has the same effect as being a solvent and frequent filter changes become a routine at first).

Cold weather starting issues makes sense given one of the side effects in the fuel chart info I posted earlier.

[Bert]

Someone is paying her big bucks to lie. There is so many lies in that video. We use e30 in our festivas. I ran e85 in my aspire for 20k miles with no issues at all.

You actually ran E85 in an ordinary car for an extended period and didn't notice any difference. Far out man! I have to inject some sarcasm at this point and suggest you turn your radio down some more.
I've never done it (run E85) and have no real plans to do so either but at least you're giving us real information. Ethanol does ignite and does provide energy, of that I'm sure.

[Ford Fester]

Yep! Didn't really care if it destroyed the car so we used it as a test subject. Had 80k on it. Averaged in the mid 30s for mileage and the motor outlasted the car. Motor is now in a Festiva. The trans failed on the car and we used the suspension and engine for a swap

[sketchman]

Nor someone using E85 to run some sort of high compression, turbo'd, super charged, etc., "I can't believe it's not butter" rig.

A highly boosted car running E85 uses LOTS of it in a short time and more violently. A lot more than any stock Festiva. Seemed relevant to me, but whatever.

[lessersivad]

So the post started as a warning from AAA to not use E15 in older vehicles.

Which I suppose is a valid "heads up" to the general public to try to insure, or at least minimize any fuel related problems in vehicles not originally intended or designed to run such a fuel.

In some of the responses to the post there have been people reporting no problems even running up to E85 after modifications, which is understandable considering I could run nitromethane, methanol, propane, wood gas, etc. with modifications to either the engine and or fuel system.

So I guess at the end of the day it matters not what you are running for fuel in your vehicles. If it works and you're happy with the results is all that matters.

As for myself, I will ATTEMPT to buy non-ethanol laced gasoline for as long as I can. Even though I may be fooling myself because the pumps at the stations I frequent don't have any sort of label stating it contains ethanol, it doesn't neccessarily make it so.