Festiva vs. Fiat 500

[TominMO]

Made the very same run (300 straight miles on paved highway) with both types of cars over the past 10 years Achieved 58 mpg (Imperial gallon) with the Echo this summer and never got beyond 50 in a Festy. These are stratosphere numbers via careful driving but the Echo did this at 60 mph (fuel economy actually dropped at average 55 mph) whereas the Festy had to be driven at much lower speed (50) in order to get those numbers.
DOHC is engine evolution of avoiding extraneous weighty moving parts and increasing revs. By extension this includes performance. 1.5 DOHC in an Echo should really be no different from a 1.3 SOHC in a Festy, but I assure you it very much is!

Impressive MPG numbers for sure.

[Bert]

Echo has a VVT engine which probably helps a lot. What kinda revs are you turning at 55 or 60?

The car actually has a factory tach. Pretty sure it's 2700 rpm at 100 kph (62 mph). I'll confirm next time out. Whatever technology (combination VVT, EFI and DOHC) is most improved, the overall fuel economy of 2nd, 3rd generation EFI engines is unreal. I drove 1350 lb Austin Minis with 850 cc and 998 cc single carb OHV engines 40 years ago and they couldn't get anywhere near 50 mpg. I managed 50 mpg only once in a 5 speed Festy and that was a knuckle-biter run under perfect road and weather conditions but with everybody wanting to pass, flashing their lights or fingering that I should get the H off the road.

Imperial gallon is 4.546 litres whereas US gallon is 3.82 (?) litres by the way.

[harpon]

As an old bike racer I think that weight means a great deal- cyclists will generally spend a whole lot of money for something a few ounces less- to a fault!

especially starting and stopping, and climbing any grades.
Weight takes power and gas to move forward, and more braking to stop- so that bigger brake parts and wider tires seem more appropriate-

that leads to a bigger engine, carrying more coolant to cool and more gas to go the same distance,
and the added fluids are heavy and add weight
and the vicious circle goes around

Motor size and horsepower more tend to improve a top speed less attainable as the roads grow more crowded. The don't translate directly to efficiency. The thing I've always bee impressed with Festiva since I bought that first 88 back in '97 is the balance it achieved- and how both efficient and reliable it proved to be- I bought it at 175 K and drove it over 275 K with very little maintenance, before I had to sell it moving far away.

Although I detest airbags, I feel its been the acquisition of the automotive interests at a worldwide level
by the big oil companies fueled by the constant income they have to gain

that have kept favoring high powered and heavier cars
and then being able to blame the government they more own
and environmentalists- who threaten their profits and control
is the icing on the cake

causing those 100 car pile-ups the past few years- that didn't seem to exist in years past

[racecar001]

Um.... I own a 500 abarth when comparing it to a festy it wins hands down. The festiva is fun old school cool, but I hope I never get hit in it. Stock for stock the abarth is faster more comfortable and very similar size. The Bp swaped festiva I just purchased won't keep up with my abarth. Each car has their place , I enjoy both

[Flyin4stroke]

Um.... I own a 500 abarth when comparing it to a festy it wins hands down. The festiva is fun old school cool, but I hope I never get hit in it. Stock for stock the abarth is faster more comfortable and very similar size. The Bp swaped festiva I just purchased won't keep up with my abarth. Each car has their place , I enjoy both

You abarths payment is probably more too.

[racecar001]

Yes, I guess the sticker price was more too.

[Bert]

I have no doubt an Echo can get as good of mpg as a festiva. They curb between 2000 and 2100 lbs. The weight isnt everything though. Much better aero. More modern engineering and such. Over 100hp in a 2000lb car means its gonna be quicker than a festy easily. Its probably not geared for very high rpm either. They're just plain good cars.

Theres plenty of them on fuelly getting north of 40 mpg.

Checked on mine yesterday and it revs 2000 at 80 kph (49.5 mph) and 2500 at 100 kph (62 mph). Revs stop at 6500 vs 5500 for Festy, and has no problem at all getting up to 100 mph. Never did get over 95 mph in a Festy likely because I never could get turnpike-quality (ie round and smooth rolling!) 12 inch tires.

[old yellow]

I might not be thinking on the same level as you but the EFI Festiva redlines at 6250, so If my car does about 3000 RPM @ 60MPH That in turn means i'm only going to get about the same gas milage as a stock Ford Aspire, between 35-37 MPG..... as for the Chevrolet spark compared to the 500, it's cheeper and get better MPG in the city but has less horsepower....

btw dad had his old 91 up to absolute max speed of 115 MPH back in 1991.... wouldn't do that now even if his current Festiva does about 50 MPH in 3rd gear....

[Bert]

I might not be thinking on the same level as you but the EFI Festiva redlines at 6250, so If my car does about 3000 RPM @ 60MPH That in turn means i'm only going to get about the same gas milage as a stock Ford Aspire, between 35-37 MPG..... as for the Chevrolet spark compared to the 500, it's cheeper and get better MPG in the city but has less horsepower....

btw dad had his old 91 up to absolute max speed of 115 MPH back in 1991.... wouldn't do that now even if his current Festiva does about 50 MPH in 3rd gear....

I get overwhelmed by Internet claims. I was only reporting from personal experience, and with an ordinary car. Myself thought (and went forward believing) a simple 1750 lb Festiva couldn't ever be beat for 'gas engine' fuel economy but was considerably surprised when gifted an (now also old) 05 Echo. I hate pervading electronics and the 93s (owned and drove 3 of them (Festys) over the course of 10 years) were a learning curve. For one OBDI is a complete joke when it comes to diagnostics, and any ability to 'fine tune' was never there. Echo is the same, as a 'tuner', but OB II readers for these actually tell you something (ie change the spark plugs!) and routine 650 km runs before fill-ups is immediately noticeable compared to 500 km max fuel for a Festy.

[ThisVelologist]

Related:

They are nearly identical in dimensions. Width, length, and height. The Festiva uses all of its width and its square shape and lack of safety gives a much more open cabin. Taken in Whole Foods parking lot.

[eurotiva]

I owned a abarth a couple times last week....he's now bringing it to my shop to make it faster.

They run good, but no comparison if the Festiva has similar hp, or more

[Bert]

Related:
They are nearly identical in dimensions. Width, length, and height. The Festiva uses all of its width and its square shape and lack of safety gives a much more open cabin. Taken in Whole Foods parking lot.

Thoughtful of you to take this picture. They weigh 400 lb more and they're severely cramped for space inside compared to a Festy. But I would imagine they're safer to be in during a crash or rollover!