Roll cage pictures needed

[ryanprins13]

Roll cage pictures needed

I ride a motorcycle! i fully understand the dangers of the road. I was wanting a cage a for the fun of having a cage and b thinking it would help save me. If the cage doesnt actually help me then i wont bother with it. I fully understand how to drive and ride to avoid others. However crap still happens.

It took me a while to write my last thing and i didnt see this. We kinda went to talking about festiva safety in general, i dont think anyones saying your a bad or dangerous driver. Im not anyway.
Vehicles are build to be safe at a collision at one particular speed or amount of force. Anything above or below that gets less safe. That speed is 60km/hr because thats what we crash test at. Airbags work optimally at one speed, proper body weight and hight, sitting proper distance from steering wheel, no digits or limbs in the way.... less so close to that speed or other variables and their harmful farther away from what their set to.
Same with crumple zones. Designed for a speed differential of 60km/hr. They take the force so your body doesnt. Above that your screwed in any vehicle. Thats where cages come in for racing. Visibility aside if you had it on the street and crash at under 60km/hr differential your car doesnt crumple properly and the force gets transferred to you and you get hurt worse than you otherwise would have.
But im off topic again, sorry. I have no pictures of a good harness bar for you, sorry.

This is what you need a roll cage for. When you want to break the world record for the longest jump in a car and you have a wife and 2 kids and you fail. This is a shorter video. Pretty cool. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nwBt5aRhhxI
Ive watched that so many times. Theres longer videos and the back story and previous attempts are interesting to see. Its really neat how well the car held up and its not often you see a quality video of what happens to a person when you roll violently like that.

[ryanprins13]

Running into a solid object at speed in any car is a bad idea, a Festiva or a Volvo. These cars are much lighter and actually MORE rigid than most consumer cars. They have a pretty effective crumple structure, but they weren't designed to protect the driver from ultra high speed collisions. However, your typical minivan is more dangerous than a Festiva at high speeds. The more a vehicle weighs, the more that weight is multiplied by inertia in a collision. A heavy vehicle will put more force into crushing itself in a crash. Furthermore, heavy vehicles keep bouncing and spinning longer than lightweight vehicles.
If heavy gauge steel was the answer to safety, then there would be a much much higher causulty rate in Formula 1 racing. The truth is that engineering is more effective than heavy materials. The Festiva chassis is a well engineered box for it's size. All in all though, avoiding collisions should be more of a concern than trying to survive them.

I realized this 5 or 6 years ago when I started taking courses in frame pulling and started my obsession with watching car crashes on youtube. You are the first other person I have met that has said these things. Everyone i've tried to explain it to thinks I'm nuts. Cool

Posts #7, #13, and #16 should be enshrined as the most accurate, cogent and important statements on this Forum.

+1

Haven't these cars been known to squish too much and involve passengers into the squish? Ive heard a bunch of stories with how festivas crumble with any force (reason A of why festivas are so light) I would like to daily festivas in the future as many people do but once I have kids if I don't trust my festivas structure in a crash to Volvo I go

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I'm not so much worried about being a dumby and doing Mach 2 into a wall or tree I'm thinking more like someone running a red light and t boning you or being rear ended by a speeding distracted driver or worse to worse sliding on ice these are strong concerns of mine in the future I mean the lightweightness will help the festiva bounce to safety but is a festiva perfectly safe cars stock? Like Ryan said there's a lack of confidence in the safety department that keeps many festiva drivers from carving roads at unnecessary speeds is my lack of confidence valid? I've never experienced a terrible accident in a festiva so I wouldn't know the true safety of the chassis I'll have to do more researching

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I have been collecting photos and looking carefully at everything people post about festivas crashing. I haven't been doing it that long though. What I see Is that festivas hold up well in frontal collisions, and similar to other hatchbacks when rear-ended. Hatches are always worse when rear ended because the rear passengers are closer to the back end than a sedan. Festivas suffer less damage than newer cars in low speed collisions say under 30km/hr (most times the speed differential isnt too high because you manage to slow down before hitting or getting hit.) Where they seem to suffer at higher speeds is that the roof sometimes buckles downward instead of up, possibly hitting an occupant on the head. I haven't seen any festiva that was t-boned. Newer (say 2010 and up) vehicles use higher strength metals on the sides of the car. That way in a perfect senario the vehicle skids sideways without denting in too far. The new dodge dart was said to dent in 4 inches maximum if t-boned by a train, because it would skid sideways after 4 inches. However that is in theory in computer models. When they first started doing that (in cars other than the dart) there was none to little high strength metal connecting the 2 sides so that if you got t-boned and your opposite wheels hit a curb or another car or something the center would crush. An ideal vehicle for being t-boned in is light with a very strong cage. The festiva is light. You got one out of 2. The heavier the vehicle is the stronger the cage needs to be. I would rather be t-boned in a festiva than in a lincoln continental of the same era.

To be accident free 99% gaurenteed you need:
1 to pay full attention
2 be a half decent driver (some people cant drive even while paying attention)
3 know what your car can do
4 drive within what your car can do

driving a festiva and realizing if you hit something you may die gives you #1, its the most important. By that I mean I watch my rearview mirror when slowing down, look both ways before going when the light turns green or a 4 way stop, when going straight through a green look to see if anyone's gonna run their light, paying attention to the people driving not only in front of you but also beside and behind. Pay attention to your exits while driving, always be thinking about if you have to avoid something which ditch is better to take, how wide is the shoulder, anyone around me i would hit if i swerved, is there a semi behind me that would hit me if i stomped on the brakes and so on. Driving takes a lot of concentration. When paying attention like that most collisions that would not have been your fault can also be avoided. I was hit once though. In a 2005 civic. I was stopped on a highway waiting for oncoming traffic to go by so I could turn left and someone didnt see me and rear ended me still doing 65mph. I saw it coming but the best choice was to stay put and hope she saw me. She swerved a little but didnt even brake. If i had had passengers in the back best choice would have been foot off the brake to avoid crumpling, but I didnt so best choice was foot hard on the brake to reduce whiplash. Both cars were destroyed and we were sore for a while.
Anyhow, people around me are always buying trucks because 'their so safe!' what that does first is cause them to pay less attention because they have a false sense of security. I generally show this video to show its false. This is perfectly controlled at only 60km/hr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wb66PzljP8

This is a video of crashing a smart car and a geo metro ish thing into a concrete barrier at 70mph. not too much metal intruded into the passenger area, geo metro thingy faired better than the smart car. I can gaurentee the driver would have been crushed in a pickup or with a semi with a taller wall. internal injuries from stopping that fast would kill the car guys though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iKGfo1wmOM

volvo getting t-boned. Its not bad, but dont kid yourself, its not good. This is an ideal collision, no speeding by pickup and volvo not moving or being hit again. There are usually secondary collisions, like hitting another car, lightpost, curb, building. A bigger car is no substitute for paying good attention. pause the video at about 24 seconds and have a good look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrlE1TXJvuY

[mikemounlio]

I ride a motorcycle! i fully understand the dangers of the road. I was wanting a cage a for the fun of having a cage and b thinking it would help save me. If the cage doesnt actually help me then i wont bother with it. I fully understand how to drive and ride to avoid others. However crap still happens.

[Festiver]

Running into a solid object at speed in any car is a bad idea, a Festiva or a Volvo. These cars are much lighter and actually MORE rigid than most consumer cars. They have a pretty effective crumple structure, but they weren't designed to protect the driver from ultra high speed collisions. However, your typical minivan is more dangerous than a Festiva at high speeds. The more a vehicle weighs, the more that weight is multiplied by inertia in a collision. A heavy vehicle will put more force into crushing itself in a crash. Furthermore, heavy vehicles keep bouncing and spinning longer than lightweight vehicles.
If heavy gauge steel was the answer to safety, then there would be a much much higher causulty rate in Formula 1 racing. The truth is that engineering is more effective than heavy materials. The Festiva chassis is a well engineered box for it's size. All in all though, avoiding collisions should be more of a concern than trying to survive them.

I'm not so much worried about being a dumby and doing Mach 2 into a wall or tree I'm thinking more like someone running a red light and t boning you or being rear ended by a speeding distracted driver or worse to worse sliding on ice these are strong concerns of mine in the future I mean the lightweightness will help the festiva bounce to safety but is a festiva perfectly safe cars stock? Like Ryan said there's a lack of confidence in the safety department that keeps many festiva drivers from carving roads at unnecessary speeds is my lack of confidence valid? I've never experienced a terrible accident in a festiva so I wouldn't know the true safety of the chassis I'll have to do more researching

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[TorqueEffect]

I've been in a couple low speed collisions in my Festiva.

One year I was a little too confident in the snow, and slid into a gaurdrail at about 20mph, did nothing but rub off the paint off in a few spots on the passenger side.

Then another time a couple years ago where a multi-car fender bender happened in front of me, and I ended up being a part of it, that was doing about 25mph as my brakes locked up, while I slid into the back end of a Hyundai. Broke the clips on the grille, and bent the central brace for the hood latch.

I do dredd any kinda side impact from another moving object in these, as the doors are paper thin.

[Dragonhealer]

Posts #7, #13, and #16 should be enshrined as the most accurate, cogent and important statements on this Forum.

[jawja jim]

Driving fast on a public street where you're sharing the road with others isn't a very good idea any time. Depending on the fools sharing the road to act, or react, in a sane and logical manner is a recipe for disaster. People are allowed to drive because they were able to answer (or correctly guess) 7 of 10 multiple choice questions and fog a mirror. If you want to drive fast, get on the track where at least everyone is somewhat aware of their situation/surroundings and are usually going in the same direction. On a motorcycle, 10x. That's my rant!

[Advancedynamix]

So how about a picture or two of a good harness bar setup? I have seen 2 different kinda floating around. One on the pillar and one just under the rear window.

[Advancedynamix]

Even if you made your whole car out of boron steel thick enough that it wouldnt crush your confidence level would go up far enough that you would end up crashing at speeds high enough that internal injuries would kill you. Doesn't take a lot actually to do that

Thats what makes festivas safer. You know youll die if you do something stupid so you drive safer. Other vehicles give you a false confidence and then dont protect you like you think they will

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This.

[Advancedynamix]

Running into a solid object at speed in any car is a bad idea, a Festiva or a Volvo. These cars are much lighter and actually MORE rigid than most consumer cars. They have a pretty effective crumple structure, but they weren't designed to protect the driver from ultra high speed collisions. However, your typical minivan is more dangerous than a Festiva at high speeds. The more a vehicle weighs, the more that weight is multiplied by inertia in a collision. A heavy vehicle will put more force into crushing itself in a crash. Furthermore, heavy vehicles keep bouncing and spinning longer than lightweight vehicles.
If heavy gauge steel was the answer to safety, then there would be a much much higher causulty rate in Formula 1 racing. The truth is that engineering is more effective than heavy materials. The Festiva chassis is a well engineered box for it's size. All in all though, avoiding collisions should be more of a concern than trying to survive them.

[Festiver]

A roll cage is only safe if you're fully harnessed in to a proper FIA race seat and wearing a helmet. This isn't practical in a street car because you can't look for traffic at intersections and while merging. If you aren't tightly harnessed in with a helmet on then a cage will most likely cause more harm than good. The cars original structure was designed to absorb impact and protect the driver. Adding a bunch of steel to the car in random places is very counterproductive to the energy absorption properties of the car. What this means is, you're going to feel an impact much more severely with a cage, and if you aren't tightly strapped to a proper seat, that crash energy could tear you to pieces, literally. Cars are designed to squish for a very good reason.
The best way to ensure your safety and the safety of those around you is to be responsible. Take driving seriously. Learn proper car control in a safe environment and never underestimate the variables which could be present on public roads. If you set a Festiva up properly, and take driving seriously, you'll be in the safest car on the road. These cars use very little space on the road, so avoiding obstacles is much easier than with larger, heavier cars. These cars can stop and turn much faster than any other car on the road. The strongest steel in the world can't protect a dangerous driver.

Haven't these cars been known to squish too much and involve passengers into the squish? Ive heard a bunch of stories with how festivas crumble with any force (reason A of why festivas are so light) I would like to daily festivas in the future as many people do but once I have kids if I don't trust my festivas structure in a crash to Volvo I go

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[ryanprins13]

Roll cage pictures needed

Even if you made your whole car out of boron steel thick enough that it wouldnt crush your confidence level would go up far enough that you would end up crashing at speeds high enough that internal injuries would kill you. Doesn't take a lot actually to do that

Thats what makes festivas safer. You know youll die if you do something stupid so you drive safer. Other vehicles give you a false confidence and then dont protect you like you think they will

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[mikemounlio]

Got it no cage. so i still need a good harness bar setup. Any good ideas on that?

[ryanprins13]

Regular car you get hurt in crashes over 60mph. You get hurt bad in bad crashes at or over that speed. Caged car keeps you from getting squished by the car itself but you get hurt worse at low speed collisions than you would without the cage. All the force of the collision gets transferred to you instead of the car. Unless your planning to be really stupid on the street you actually dont want a cage. Like he said above^ properly strapped in so the cage helps makes you more dangerous on the road because you cant see easily enough


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[mikemounlio]

A roll cage is only safe if you're fully harnessed in to a proper FIA race seat and wearing a helmet. This isn't practical in a street car because you can't look for traffic at intersections and while merging. If you aren't tightly harnessed in with a helmet on then a cage will most likely cause more harm than good. The cars original structure was designed to absorb impact and protect the driver. Adding a bunch of steel to the car in random places is very counterproductive to the energy absorption properties of the car. What this means is, you're going to feel an impact much more severely with a cage, and if you aren't tightly strapped to a proper seat, that crash energy could tear you to pieces, literally. Cars are designed to squish for a very good reason.
The best way to ensure your safety and the safety of those around you is to be responsible. Take driving seriously. Learn proper car control in a safe environment and never underestimate the variables which could be present on public roads. If you set a Festiva up properly, and take driving seriously, you'll be in the safest car on the road. These cars use very little space on the road, so avoiding obstacles is much easier than with larger, heavier cars. These cars can stop and turn much faster than any other car on the road. The strongest steel in the world can't protect a dangerous driver.

So how about a picture or two of a good harness bar setup? I have seen 2 different kinda floating around. One on the pillar and one just under the rear window.