Stupid tips and tricks

[ricko1966]

A picture's worth a thousand words[ATTACH=CONFIG]21403[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]21404[/ATTACH] I now use longer angle iron 30'' 2 30'' angle iron, 2 bungee chords,2 clothes pins,2 new identical tape measures.

FWIW 1 inch total toe, measured across a 29inch spread equals 1 degree per wheel or two degrees total toe. using 30" angle makes the math easy. if you want 1 degree total toe it's 1/2 inch 1/4 inch is .50 degree, etc.

[mikemounlio]

FWIW 1 inch total toe, measured across a 29inch spread equals 1 degree per wheel or two degrees total toe. using 30" angle makes the math easy. if you want 1 degree total toe it's 1/2 inch 1/4 inch is .50 degree, etc.

I tried this with some flat scrap i had but it was to short. I now have camber plates but i still want to make a set like this. Camber plates are to easy to bump or not be tight up to the tire.

[ricko1966]

I tried this with some flat scrap i had but it was to short. I now have camber plates but i still want to make a set like this. Camber plates are to easy to bump or not be tight up to the tire.

the heads on the alignment machines are easy to bump too,which changes your screen readings,or knocks them off the wheel,some guys bump them on purpose so the screen reads all good hit print,your alignment is done! The bad thing is they also can fall 3 feet to the floor and are now no longer accurate and the new guy that knocked it off the wheel doesn't want to tell anyone so it remains out of calibration for who knows how long. FWIW I started wrapping a bungee cord around the head and hooking it to the wheel as a safety catch when I worked at small shops. Our festy specs are , total toe.04 to.52 degree which is basically any measurement from 0 to 1/4 inch measured at 29 inches is in spec. Camber is -.3 to +1.6 I run em straight up and 1/32nd toe I level the car on linoleum tiles or on a leveled car trailer to measure camber. I have real deal caster/ camber gauges and real deal drive across toe plate but reality is a decent carpenter level and a tape measure for camber and couple of straight edges and a couple of matching tape measures is fast, easy,and reasonably accurate, I used to set my angle iron on cans,usually beer cans 25 years ago. Back before you could buy cool consumer use toe plates,super easy camber check is a bubble level accross 2 flat surfaces on the wheel, on a leveled car read your level. Is it level? If so you are in spec. you can pull the bottom or top of the level in or out and measure your gap between the wheel and level with a tape or measure the thickness of a stack of washers etc,to figure camber. And for all of you thinking of using smaller bolts or camber bolts etc. to get camber adjustment roll a bent pool cue across a pool table. see my point if I am going to start monkeying around with making adjustments where there are none
I am going to start at the strut mount.Slot the holes side to side to get camber,drill the holes larger and use flat washers to get caster and camber tack weld your washers down when things are where want them.Moving the inner pivot point of the or length of the lower control arm is a much bigger deal but also a way to change camber.Caster changes can be made buy juggling stabilizer bar bushings at the control arm thinner bushing in front of the arm thicker in rear = less caster and washers in front of a good bushing and a thin bushing in rear = more caster I thought about slotting the stabilizer bar mounting points but then though,Why? it is just a beater just drive it.

[ryanprins13]

the heads on the alignment machines are easy to bump too,which changes your screen readings ! The bad thing is they also can fall 3 feet to the floor and are now no longer accurate and the new guy that knocked it off the wheel doesn't want to tell anyone so it remains out of calibration for who knows how long. FWIW I started wrapping a bungee cord around the head and hooking it to the wheel as a safety catch when I worked at small shops. Our festy specs are , total toe.04 to.52 degree which is basically any measurement from 0 to 1/4 inch is in spec. Camber is -.3 to +1.6 I run em straight up and 1/32nd toe I level the car on lenoleum tiles or on a leveled car trailer to measure camber. I have real deal caster camber gauges and drive across toe plate but reality is a decent carpenter level and a tape measure for camber and couple of straight edges and a couple of matching tape measures is fast, easy,and reasonably accurate, I used to set my angle iron on cans,usually beer cans 25 years ago. Back before you could buy cool consumer use toe plates,super easy camber check is a bubble level accross 2 flat surfaces on the wheel, on a leveled car read your level. Is it level? If so you are in spec. you can pull the bottom or top of the level in or out and measure your gap between the wheel and level with a tape or measure the thickness of a stack of washers etc,to figure camber. And for all of you thinking of using smaller bolts or camber bolts etc. to get camber adjustment roll a bent pool cue across a pool table. see my point if I am going to start monkeying around with making adjustments where there are none
I am going to start at the strut mount.Slot the holes side to side to get camber,drill the holes larger and use flat washers to get caster and camber tack weld your washers down when things are where want them.Moving the inner pivot point of the or length of the lower control arm is a much bigger deal but also a way to change camber.Caster changes can be made buy juggling stabilizer bar bushings at the control arm thinner bushing in front of the arm thicker in rear = less caster and washers in front of a good bushing and a thin bushing in rear = more caster I thought about slotting the stabilizer bar mounting points but then though,Why? it is just a beater just drive it.

For most of us slotting the strut holes at the bottom and taking a little off the knuckle is easier when trying to get a lot of camber since the struts are out anyway. I dont think you get much adjustment on the fender apron for camber do you?
Anyway, i got -2 degreees camber like this.

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[ricko1966]

I used to do that myself I even used to recommend it. But too many training sessions and too much over anilyizing made me rethink it, now your strut is not straight it is bent and I don't know how to explain this but since it is no longer a straight line,but now it is an arc. your camber is going to change different amounts at different wheel positions not follow the same curve as it would if it were a straight line. I assumed that was why manufacturers quit stamping ovals in the struts and started stamping round holes. Personally if I can get enough movement at the top or at the control arm thats where I am going first,but lots of people slot their struts and I also used to,still will if I have to, nothing super wrong with it just not quite as good . But really in a training session I think it was Hunter the instructor told us if the Camber is off something is bent or worn out,check the ride height if you push up on the bumper does it go in spec. ?The car needs springs that will fix the alignment. He is right, but we live in a real world people can't afford to replace something that still works,thus aftermarket camber bolts. We aren't building space ships and I certainly wouldn't critisize someone for using camber bolts or slotting a strut I would still tack washers in place though. I also wouldn't critisize someone for not knowing how to spell critisize or anilize I have never tried getting big movement on a festiva mine is a beat up little piece of crap daily driver that needs to be kept safe,get good gas milage,and be dependable ,so I can spend my time and money on my toy cars .

[ricko1966]

I know everyone has their own method of marking hoses,wires,parts orientation on dissassembly to aide in reassembly this one is mine, it is the fastest on reassembly that I have found. Put a stripe of white out on everything before you start,as you are dissassembling put stripes on the white out marks with colored sharpies now everything has it's own color code[picture the markings on a resister} going back together it's all visual red to red, red/blue to red/blue yellow/orange/black to yellow/orange/black etc. I use to use touch up paint but a package of sharpies and white out is cheaper and easier to store and it is hard to put 35 paint dots on a wire.

[ryanprins13]

,
1 now your strut is not straight it is bent and I don't know how to explain this but since it is no longer a straight line,but now it is an arc. your camber is going to change different amounts at different wheel positions not follow the same curve as it would if it were a straight line.

2 Personally if I can get enough movement at the top or at the control arm thats where I am going first,

. We aren't building space ships and I certainly wouldn't critisize someone for using camber bolts or slotting a strut I would still tack washers in place though.


3 I have never tried getting big movement on a festiva mine is a beat up little piece of crap daily driver that needs to be kept safe,get good gas milage,and be dependable ,so I can spend my time and money on my toy cars .

I just shortened what you said in what im quoting to only what i am talking about, hope thats ok.
i dont understand number 1. And i would like to, i bought the tools i needed and am doing my own wheel alignments now because of the reasons you stated.
The way i understand our setup- mcpherson strut and one control arm- nothing changes significantly differently than stock in the arc during suspension travel with more camber from slotting a strut hole.
The strut is still straight, i think you know that so im not sure what you mean. Moving it at the top would change its arc more i would think.
With our specific setup (i realize this may be different on other suspension styles) if you slotted a strut hole to get -1deg camber as opposed to oem 0deg camber you have that at static rest. Would you not just be -1deg over oem at full suspension compression or full droop?

2 maybe if your a good welder. Slotting strut holes like i did in the photo i posted earlier poses no safety issue at all.

On the fender apron where the struts mount there is not much movement to be achieved in the stock hole. If you grind out the bend i marked in red to get more movement you reduce the structural integrity significantly. Same with grinding the bolt holes marked in green then welding washers. You would have to be a really good welder to not reduce the structural integrity with the heat from the welder or welding too hot or cold. You also create a lot of areas for rust to start even if you make a good attempt to paint and rustproof your work.
Just filing the green bolt holes over sure, ive done that for caster and im sure thats fine, but welding washers and cutting the main hole bigger i wouldnt recommend.

3 those 3 things is what im after with mine. Drove 9.5 years and like 250,000km in my festiva stock doing those things. Did my own wheel alignment with basically stock suspension and added -2deg camber and the car drives amazing compared to the same suspension and tires before adding the camber! It drives straighter, is more fun and handles amazing! I no longer wear all my tires out from shops giving me too much toe in, i just wear the fronts from taking corners twice as fast as i used to, lol. Its worth it. Grinder on the front and $10 of shims in the back.


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[ricko1966]

I just shortened what you said in what im quoting to only what i am talking about, hope thats ok.
i dont understand number 1. And i would like to, i bought the tools i needed and am doing my own wheel alignments now because of the reasons you stated.
The way i understand our setup- mcpherson strut and one control arm- nothing changes significantly differently than stock in the arc during suspension travel with more camber from slotting a strut hole.
The strut is still straight, i think you know that so im not sure what you mean. Moving it at the top would change its arc more i would think.
With our specific setup (i realize this may be different on other suspension styles) if you slotted a strut hole to get -1deg camber as opposed to oem 0deg camber you have that at static rest. Would you not just be -1deg over oem at full suspension compression or full droop?

2 maybe if your a good welder. Slotting strut holes like i did in the photo i posted earlier poses no safety issue at all.

On the fender apron where the struts mount there is not much movement to be achieved in the stock hole. If you grind out the bend i marked in red to get more movement you reduce the structural integrity significantly. Same with grinding the bolt holes marked in green then welding washers. You would have to be a really good welder to not reduce the structural integrity with the heat from the welder or welding too hot or cold. You also create a lot of areas for rust to start even if you make a good attempt to paint and rustproof your work.
Just filing the green bolt holes over sure, ive done that for caster and im sure thats fine, but welding washers and cutting the main hole bigger i wouldnt recommend.

3 those 3 things is what im after with mine. Drove 9.5 years and like 250,000km in my festiva stock doing those things. Did my own wheel alignment with basically stock suspension and added -2deg camber and the car drives amazing compared to the same suspension and tires before adding the camber! It drives straighter, is more fun and handles amazing! I no longer wear all my tires out from shops giving me too much toe in, i just wear the fronts from taking corners twice as fast as i used to, lol. Its worth it. Grinder on the front and $10 of shims in the back.


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What I meant with no. 1 was if you take a straight pool cue and roll it across a table and watch it it rotates on center, now if you put a bend in the middle and watch it again one end bobs up and down and doesn't rotate on center.Which is why I prefer to move the top mounting point if possible or the lower control arm inboard point,if possible,and or practical. Maybe I am all wrong maybe tipping a little one direction or the other while turning is beneficial,it's just how I look at it, As for no 2 you bring up a good point about rust,that never even crossed my mind I just squirt a little paint on and never even think about it again. I didn't think that you slotting strut holes was a safety issue and I knew what I meant unfortunately I didn't word it clearly when I said I would still tack washers in place. I mean't on your slotted strut holes after you had everything where u wanted it.That way it stays where you want it until you grind off your tacks.

And no3 that's awesome I'm glad you've been sucessful and had fun.

[hot4dl8ly]

Sometimes all you need to hold a nut in a socket is a small piece of paper - less messy than dumdum. Use a set of old brake shoes while washing your car, one each in front of the front tires/behind rear tires - keeps the hose from getting stuck.

[ryanprins13]

What I meant with no. 1 was if you take a straight pool cue and roll it across a table and watch it it rotates on center, now if you put a bend in the middle and watch it again one end bobs up and down and doesn't rotate on center.Which is why I prefer to move the top mounting point if possible or the lower control arm inboard point,if possible,and or practical. Maybe I am all wrong maybe tipping a little one direction or the other while turning is beneficial,it's just how I look at it, As for no 2 you bring up a good point about rust,that never even crossed my mind I just squirt a little paint on and never even think about it again. I didn't think that you slotting strut holes was a safety issue and I knew what I meant unfortunately I didn't word it clearly when I said I would still tack washers in place. I mean't on your slotted strut holes after you had everything where u wanted it.That way it stays where you want it until you grind off your tacks.

And no3 that's awesome I'm glad you've been sucessful and had fun.

Oh, i thought you had meant through the suspension travel rather than turning, sorry. But i have thought about it for a bit but still cant see how the pool cue analogy correlates to this. I would imagine it would be like what i did in this quick video:

https://youtu.be/1c6gGoT5fFw

With the first being oem 0 camber and the second like -10deg, lol.
I just dont see it being different, if it is i would like to understand it though, perhaps you have another analogy or a different way of explaining it?

It always bugged my working in autobody slotting or making a new hole, wiping paint on it then shoving the bolt in. The bolt always wipes the paint off either when you shove it through, as you tighten it, or as the head snugs down.

Oh! I thought you were talking about welding washers on the fender apron/strut mount bolt holes, lol

. I carefully slotted my struts first on the bench using a gauge after measuring what it was at oem, then finishing up on the car so that my desired camber is with the bolt all the way to the far side of the hole, its not slotted any farther, so bumping cannot give me more negative camber, only less, which is unlikely to happen. I understand most people dont do that though.



#3- you should do it


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[ricko1966]

Ryan I may be totally wrong on if there would be any difference as to whether or not it makes any difference at all to put a bend in the middle> I have a tendency to over analyze things and make them harder than they need to be.It just makes sense in my head that if you take a piece that was straight and put a bend in the middle now it is no longer going to turn in the same plane but it will move in and out like the end of the pool cue,and if you hold each end of the pool cue the center is going to run in and out. The video you showed me, I'd like to see a bent dowel rod version for comparison. I have recommended camber bolts 100's of times when I worked at firestone.And none of this was for custom alignments it was to bring things into the green and hit print.On my own stuff my first preference is to move the top or bottom,just because it makes sense in my head.And about welding washers,that's just me I weld washers to everything they make a great gusset,you can weld through the center and around the perimeter,you can tack em to stuff to hold it while you weld bolt what ever you are doing, I weld them to broken bolts to take them out,if I relocate a hole somewhere I weld a washer where the new hole is. It's just me.

[ryanprins13]

Ryan I may be totally wrong on if there would be any difference as to whether or not it makes any difference at all to put a bend in the middle> I have a tendency to over analyze things and make them harder than they need to be.It just makes sense in my head that if you take a piece that was straight and put a bend in the middle now it is no longer going to turn in the same plane but it will move in and out like the end of the pool cue,and if you hold each end of the pool cue the center is going to run in and out. The video you showed me, I'd like to see a bent dowel rod version for comparison. I have recommended camber bolts 100's of times when I worked at firestone.And none of this was for custom alignments it was to bring things into the green and hit print.On my own stuff my first preference is to move the top or bottom,just because it makes sense in my head.And about welding washers,that's just me I weld washers to everything they make a great gusset,you can weld through the center and around the perimeter,you can tack em to stuff to hold it while you weld bolt what ever you are doing, I weld them to broken bolts to take them out,if I relocate a hole somewhere I weld a washer where the new hole is. It's just me.

Ok, where you lost me is where we are making a bend. I understand what happens to a pool cue if you bend it and turn it but not how anything similar is happening on our cars when we slot strut holes.
The reason i used a straight dowel and just changed the angle of the nut is that the strut is not being bent, its moving slightly farther in at the bottom and the angle of the hub is changing, just like how i changed the angle of the nut.

Now to guess- are you talking about how this would change the scrub radius? That is not something i understand well, i posted asking about it here in post #48:

https://fordfestiva.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59566

But didnt get much of an answer. What i do know about it is that changing tire size, rim width or adding wheel spacers would change this far more drastically than 1 to 5 degrees of camber would when achieved at the lower strut bolts. Also i learned that oem manufacturers do not have a set scrub radius that they stick to, some are positive, some negative, some zero. All depends on what they want out of it i would guess. Thats all i really know about it, if you know more about what changing the scrub radius does to the handling i would love to learn. Installing my new tires changed it, thats why i started wondering.



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[ricko1966]

Actually the strut is being bent ,just a little, take the top bolt out now yank the top of the tire out, look at your strut it is now 2 straight lines meeting at an angle at the bottom bolt instead of 1 straight line top to bottom,anyway that's how it looks to me. Now just so you know my DD festiva is the parts car I bought to replace the parts car,that I bought to fix the first festy which the only reason I bought was because it was only 100.00 and was a DD before the previous owner turned it into a parts car. I fix nothing on the car unless it absolutely has to be done to keep the car mobile and safe.It is only so I don't tear up,wear out ,get water on my other cars and saves me ton's on gas.

[ryanprins13]

Actually the strut is being bent ,just a little, take the top bolt out now yank the top of the tire out, look at your strut it is now 2 straight lines meeting at an angle at the bottom bolt instead of 1 straight line top to bottom,anyway that's how it looks to me. Now just so you know my DD festiva is the parts car I bought to replace the parts car,that I bought to fix the first festy which the only reason I bought was because it was only 100.00 and was a DD before the previous owner turned it into a parts car. I fix nothing on the car unless it absolutely has to be done to keep the car mobile and safe.It is only so I don't tear up,wear out ,get water on my other cars and saves me ton's on gas.

Are these the 2 lines your talking about that change?

If not would you mind screenshotting the photo and drawing where it gets bent?

And yes, festivas are amazing for running super cheap for long periods of time. My first one near the end i drove for 3 years and did no maintinance except oil changes just waiting for it to die. It didnt, so i decided to put some work into it to get it running nice after the 3 years, lol.

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[ricko1966]

Don't have time right now heading to Kansas City, Back and forth from KC all weekend I'll try to find someting to illustrate it in the morning if not it will have to wait until monday sometime. Sorry.