Neutral saftey switch?? (attn; FB71)

[roycehof]

Hey, Remote start - That is really a cool idea (especially since these cars take quite a while to warm up). I think it would a great "how to". Can you take pictures and write up your procedure as you do this task?
Good Luck!

[stefan]

ok this is weird... i have zero continutity to ground on that wire, regardless of gear position.
but... i have +12v on that pin when in gear and 0v when in neutral?

[stefan]

so anyone good with realys? i need to turn +12 in gear/ 0v in neutal into grounded in neutral/not grouded in gear.

[jglutz]

Not a problem...anything is possible...you'll need a....
SPDT Relay.....single pole double throw....with a 12volt coil...5 pins labled +(12V), -(gnd), NO (Normall open), C(common), NC(Normally Closed)
-OR-
DPDT Relay.....Doublee pole double throw....with a 12volt coil...8 pins labled +(12V), -(gnd), and 2 of each NO (Normall open), C(common), NC(Normally Closed)
If you have a relay laying around...post a descriptio of it and we'll make it work.
However...your ^description^ is a little confusing...can you elaborate a little more.

[FB71]

get a typical 5 pin Bosch-type automotive relay, like those I saw in your door for the window motors.

pins 85 and 86 are the coil
pin 30 is the common pole of the SPDT switch
pins 87 and 87a are your Normally Open and Normally Closed posts (Normal = power off to the coil, or at rest)

connect pin 85 to the neutral gear switch
connect pin 86 to ground
connect pin 30 to the input of the remote start ecu
connect the N/C pin (I don't remember if its 87 or 87a, look on the relay for the diagram) to ground


as for your other question about the clutch switch, just tap the purple and green wires in after the clutch switch.
If you look at the clutch switch, the Blk/Blu comes from the ign switch, the Blk/Red goes to the starter.
Interupt the Blk/Red with the purple and green

[stefan]

ok this is weird, even tho there is power in that wire when in neutral, i cant get it to operate the relay... no click, and yes the relay is fine.

Ive tried tapping 85 off the NGS wire and 86 on ground and it wouldnt work

i also tired putting the relay coil inline and it wouldnt open ither.

maybe there isnt enough current?

would it throw off the pcm if i put +12 to 85 and tapped 86 off the NGS wire (which grounds in neutral), which would open up the relay.

[jglutz]

Jim...does that relay you specified have a internal flyback diode across the coil????? Hate to see Stefan trash the nuetral switch contacts!!!!!!!!
Stefan...know what i'm talking about?

[stefan]

^-- not really to be honest ops:

he said a standard 5 pin like i used for my power windows, thats what im trying with.

[jglutz]

A relay coil or any dc coil acts just like the ignition coil in your car. Whenever a DC coil is energized, it builds a magnetic field around the coil (just like elemetery school when a magnet and iron filings wher put on the overhead projector). The problem happens when the coil is turned off...the invisbale magnetic field collapses back into the coil generating a very high voltage..could be 100's or 1000's or 10,000's of volts... this volatge sucked up by the coil...looking for a place to go...arcs (sparks) across the switch contacts as they open....after the switch opens a bunch of times..the switch contacts start to decay then eventualy fail...the cars ignition coil is a big electromagnet (hybrid transformer)...when it's turned off...the high voltage arcs thru the spark plug
Anyway...the transformer might have a picture of a diode molded into the case. A diode is eqaul to a check valve in a plumbling circuit...electricity can only travel one way. You should find the picture of one in your electrical schematics..the symbol is a arrow touching a perpindicular line..find a diode and put the line side on the plus side of the coil and the other side on the neg coil...when the coil turns off the diode will allow the high voltage short itself out without destroying the switch contacts.

if requested, can throw some dioes in the mail...no charge...cann't predict time from here to Manitoba. I probalbly said to much. page through your electrical schematics.

[stefan]

this is the only way i've gotten it to work



now.. am i going to confuse the computer by running +12 into its circuit

[jglutz]

No you won't....put the neg (cathode) side of the diode....line side on 86 and the plus (anode) on 85...without any protection...when the nuet switch opens the high voltage might find its way into the PCM.

[FB71]

most Bosch type relays have a supression resistor across 85 and 86. Stefan, if you're not sure if your relay has one, get a 500ohm resistor from radio shack, and wire it across 85 and 86.

now, since I didn't really pay much attention before I told you how to setup the relay to begine with...

you stated that the NGS did NOT have continuity to ground in neutral? I suspect you did not have a good ground for your meter/tester.
You see 12v+ on that wire in gear, because that's how the PCM looks for ground. It sends a voltage out on that wire, thru a current-limiting resistor. When the switch grounds, it pulls that wire to 0v. Computers don't like unkown values, meaning, they like to see one of two states; on or off. Off = no ground, which = 12v+. On = ground, or 0v

recheck your continuity to ground on that wire, and you shouldn't need the relay setup.

[stefan]

yay! this just got really simple!

I always use the audiable continuity setting on my multimeter... i whent and rechecked for gound in neutral.. still nothing... but then i had the idea to switch from continutiy to ohms... checked that and it was about 60 ohms.. so i whent and checked the contacts in the connector where the NGS switch connects to the harness... it was all green and terribly corroded.. i cleaned that all up and rechecked... it was like 1 or 2 ohms in neutral at the PCM.. Checked it on continuity... beeps in neutral, shuts off in gear! Purfect! now i just have to tap off that wire and im set!

thanks guys

[jglutz]

Stefan...if you still have problems...this will work....in both your drawing and my drawing the coil stay on when the ign is off, it will be a good idea to use as small as a relay as possible (small wattage) to prevent the battery from draining. The small relay will be ok because your not switching any loads, just signals. The circuit below does not put the PCM at risk. If you buy a cheal rad shack relay...hang it...don't rigidly mount it, vibration will kill it

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[FB71]

Joe, no, the coil won't stay on. The PCM provides the voltage on the circuit, which isn't present with the key off. And you schematic is way wrong. I'll explain it in a PM if you like.

Stefan, you should be fine without a relay.