something "fell off" *update page 2*

[jglutz]

That's beat...I'm Thinking........

[jglutz]

Probalbly best to do a water/coolant pressure test....They rent coolant system pressure testers at AZ or other parts stores. They are bycycle pump devices that attach tot he rad post and you pump to pressurize the system. Once pressure is begins to build...air or coolant will blow out the leak.

In your case....pull the plugs and do the test...with pressure applied....look/listen in the plug ports for escaping air or coolant. At this point....I thiink it is important to actually locate the problem (possible cracked head) before going any further.

This is a pict of my homade tester....CAUTION to all those thinking of making one...If you don't know what your doing...it can be very dangerous...One PSI to many and you''l blow something up.

[scitzz]

I am pretty sure they are the same, have you done a compression test to check your theory? When you have the head off, the mating surfaces MUST be clean clean clean before you reassemble. Once clean, it is very quick and easy to see if the head is true with a good straight edge and a feeler gauge. There is also a specific bolt pattern to remove and replace the head bolts in, as well as a 2 stage tightening by ft lbs, in a recent post on here...errrr......

http://www.fordfestiva.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16895

For a funny haha months from now, have you changed the cap? If it goes bad, it will let pressure by very easily, or not at all......but if that turns out to be it, you will kick yourself now, but laugh later I guess we all got too carried away to think of this easy one first.

edit, I wrote this after seeing page 2, forgot to look at pg 3.

Joe, I like your tool, good job, I might make one of my own! I have used a garden hose with that $3 flush piece from wally world that hooks into the heater hose to do something similar, find leaks and such, just do not remove the radiator cap! Yours measures the psi, much more accurate.......

I am a pants and suspenders kind of guy, I am always wanting to be sure of my diagnosis before I start working, this tool could be just one more in the arsenal of a lazy mechanic Wanna pass out the specs? Looks like some air compressor parts.....

I bought a mechanics stethoscope from harbour freight for like $6 a year or so ago, helps a half deef guy like me do stuff like this....

[cubstiva1]

i ran a compression test, the two out side ones were 60 and 70 psi, but the two inside one were both 30 psi, i think the problem is in there

[jglutz]

Thats really bad compression......but bad compression should not lead to air in the coolant system. Remember, a comp test should always be done on a warm engine with the throttle held wide open...this makes a substanstioal difference.

I had an experience one time with air in the coolant.... is was not a giser(sp) as your's....just constant bubles in the radiator. The front gland on the water pump was sucking air when the engine was turning/running, did not leak outwards when runnning. Also, I installed a water pump on time where the impeller was on backwards.

If the head is still on.... give it a start with the waterpump belt removed....just curious to see what happens.

[Damkid]

if you take everything off the 93 EFI head (except valves, rockers etc.) and when you take the carbed head off, whatever you see on the carbed head WILL transfer to the EFI head so you can keep your car carbed

[cubstiva1]

so just keep all the internal parts and swap out the external ones and the heads should we able to switch right over? i'm not sure if i want take parts off a good engine to fix this car, its a nice car, but i like having the complete 93 engine in waiting.

[scitzz]

car-parts.com lists 4 in Indiana (heads) 3 for $150, 1 to call for price. Be very sure that you use the proper removal/installation sequence and tightening specs ^^^^^^^for your head bolts, not doing so can warp a good head. Also a good idea to have even a putatively good head machined down a little to be safe. There is a guy with a J/Y near me with 2 aspires in it, and he usually has extremely low prices, I could see what he wants for one, but shipping might eat ya alive on it. I have a b3 with a good head on it, but I don't want to part with it, me and heads have a bad history together, as noted earlier; I ALWAYS keep one around for a quick spare.....

If done right, that compression test gave HORRIBLE numbers.

If you have warmed the engine, and blocked the throttle open, and get those numbers, you can put a couple drops of 3in1 down in a cylinder. If the compression raises, that is USUALLY indicative of a bad ring......but, if the head install was not properly torqued, or the head warped.....Dunno

If done right, that would usually mean there is a gasket leak between those 2 cylinders. If you end up having to remove the head, clean it very very well, removing all traces of old gasket material. Use a straight edge, place it from top left to bottom right, then vice versa. Try sliding a feeler gauge under it. I cannot remember the tolerance off the top of my head, but I want to say a gap over .006 inches is out of tolerance, any body know the right spec on this?

Any hoo, if the head is warped, I always recommend replace, but the other side of the argument is that shaving will cure the problem. I was taught that it is the entire head that warps, and that once up to operating temp, the warp will reappear. I have never tested this though......and I have heard lots of people claim to have it work.........

You could do Joe's test, not a bad idea, and if that seems to indicate head, try putting some radiator stop leak in there, that may hold up for a bit, and if it does, that is another cheap proof of concept that the head is bad. Replacing these heads are simple, but be sure to use the tightening pattern!

My best guess? All that overheating warped the head, happens all the dang time........but once you fix the head, you gotta find the problem that caused the overheating.

Oh yeah, do not reuse that gasket!!!!!

[cubstiva1]

do not reuse the brand new gasket, that sucks, but makes since. whats the tightening pattern, should i look in a chiltons? i'm starting to get less and less interested in this car. it has some nice parts i could pull and the front lower mount has come out of the rad. support, its just rusted right out, and is sitting on the (sway bar?) can't think what thats called, its early

[scitzz]

There is a link above that has it, here it is again.....

http://www.fordfestiva.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16895

It is in the haynes, I know that, but mine is MIA at the moment, moved a few months ago, and STILL haven't unpacked. You go in reverse of the sequence when removing a head to be safest. Then, when you replace, you first tighten to 35-40 ft lbs(use a torque wrench!) in the proper sequence, then go back and tighten to 56-60 ft lbs in sequence again. err I will copy the sequence.....

Front
l----------------l *= valve
l8*4*1*5*9 l
l7*3*2*6*10l
l----------------l

If you didn't use this sequence, you definitely need to remove the head, clean it up, and check for warpage as described above. If you don't have a haynes, get one, I remember the section for the cylinder head was very good, and clear, easy to understand. It tells you how to check for warpage, gives all the specs you need.

The head gasket, once used, cannot be reused. In your case, if you did that compression test after you replaced the head, then you have been exposing parts of the gasket to fluids, heat, pressure, yada yada yada that those parts are not designed to take, thus you MAY, no probably, have ruined it. In NC, Autozone has a gasket for $23.99, a cheap way to be sure not to have to go through replacing the head again.......

If the headgasket/head warpage wasn't your problem before, and you did the head without proper tightening, it is definitely one of your problems now! The compression test, and the one Joe recommended, often referred to as a leak down test(a real LDT is done by adding air pressure to each cylinder and reading how much pressure is lost), are designed to allow you to diagnose before replacing stuff. From your first post, when you said it had overheated a few times, I was convinced you had warped the head. Aluminum heads just can't take the constant overheating, or sometimes even 1 real bad overheat. The whole dang thing just twists. Especially the ones on my festiva Everytime I overheated, it would be on a long trip, I would be kinda zoned out after a good 10-12 hours of driving at night, and not notice the temp gauge rising, until she would make a bad rattling noise and lose power. I would make it home by pouring prestone stop leak(the kind that looks like black pellets, not the metal shavings) in the radiator, and limp home. Every time I had warped the head........

Check back in as you go along, or follow the haynes, replace the timing belt/water pump/thermostat/radiator cap at the same time if you can, they don't cost that much, and you pretty much are already at them. I will get back on in about an hour, waiting for the price of a cylinder head from an aspire from a really cheap place here in NC.......if he will sell just the head, that is what he is debating with himself right now...

[jglutz]

Front
l----------------l *= valve
l8*4*1*5*9 l
l7*3*2*6*10l
l----------------l

Smart graphic

[KingFish]

Thanks ops:

[scitzz]

Yeah, I copied it from another thread, musta been kingfish, hehe