How sloppy is TOO sloppy? (Manual Tranny input shaft)

[hawkdoc60]

I was working on the Silver Bullet on Sunday and bolted up the 5 speed tranny I got from the junkyard. It was from a '90 Festy, but the housing was different enough from the old one interfere with installing it into the car. I pulled out the original 5 speed tranny with 400,000 miles on it and looked it over. The input shaft spins freely and if you pull on it, it has about a 1/4" of play going in and out. The junkyard tranny with ~160,000 miles was tighter spinning and there was no play in and out.

My questions are: Is the play in the input shaft too much? Should I even try using the old one as is, or should I swap components from one to the other so the old housing has the newer parts? Or should I just get a rebuild kit for the original?

I am eager to get the Silver Bullet backon the road and I keep running into these little problems, so I'm getting a little frustrated.

Thanks.

[roycehof]

The input shaft should only move in and out a few thousands of an inch (the rebuild manual spec's it at - 0.0002 to 0.004 inches). The input shaft bearings are worn and need to be replaced. I took a tranny out of my car that was moving in and out about 3/8 of an inch at which time you could not keep it in fourth or fifth gear. You are getting real close to a long drive home in first or second gear. Now is the time to rebuild that trans.

[hawkdoc60]

As a matter of fact, within a week or two before the engine died in 98, it was indeed popping out of 4th and 5th. I thought the shifter bushings being gone were causing me to not get it fully in gear. Thanks for the info.

[hawkdoc60]

Next question: Since the housing of the 90 will not fit my car and its mounts, will the geartrain from the 90 fit properly, or will I run into more surprises there?

[FestYboy]

i know of no differance in the 4 to 5 speed tranys that would cause a fitment issue... i have a newer 5 speed in both of my running 88s...

[hawkdoc60]

Actually, the tranny was marked as coming off a 90. However, the mount on what would be the front of the tranny when installed was off by more than an inch outboard and the bolt holes drilled at different locations than on the original and the rear mount holes were offset downward a few degrees preventing them from lining up with the rear mount. These differences were so small that I did not notice them when laid side-by-side with the original tranny, but enough to stop me. Was the tranny mis-marked perhaps?

Would it be better to just take the geartrain out of the newer one and put it in the original? What is the likelihood the original transmission is beyond rebuild?

[Festy46]

How many bolts hold the front transmission mount (the one right next to the radiator) to the transmission? If there are 4 bolts, you probably have an Aspire transmission that somebody put in the junkyard car.

[hawkdoc60]

That is exactly right. The front mount had four bolts for the mount instead of three on the original. I guess now I know I did indeed get a wrong tranny. Would the geartrain work in a festy transmission housing?

[FB71]

ok, yes, the Aspire gearset will fit in the Festy case. However, unless you have the special tools to determine and replace the selective thickness shims, you're boned. Additionally, the Aspire has a different final drive ratio, which will cause your speedo to be off by a few miles per hour.

[hawkdoc60]

However, unless you have the special tools to determine and replace the selective thickness shims, you're boned.

I've been trying to get the MTX Rotunda kit off of eBay for months, but I keep getting sniped.

Would the final drive gear from the original most likely be ok to use instead of the Aspire gear?

[FB71]

no, because the final drive is a combination of the output shaft and the differential.

Also, if you've got a 1/4" of endplay, the Festiva case is most likely trashed around the input shaft bearing.

[hawkdoc60]

Therefore, I assume that it would be a waste of money to get the rebuild kit?

[Festy46]

You could take the case apart and look at the rear bearing. Thats where the end play is probably coming from. If it looks completely shot, and the housing for the front bearing looks good, you could get a new bearing pressed on the back for a few dollars and put it back together. It's possible you could get lucky and if not you're not out much money.

I put an Aspire transmission in one time by using the complete rear Festiva mount. For the front, I used the Festiva rubber mount and reworked the piece that bolts to the transmission. The Aspire transmission has a total of five holes drilled and tapped where the mount attaches. I drilled a hole in the middle of the mount and moved it to the side and used 2 of the original holes and center hole in the transmission to attach the mount. I then plated the sides of the mount and re-drilled the cross bolt hole to match the location of the Festiva mount. It worked fine, but for what I wanted, the engine was running out of revs because of the different gearing and I took it out.

[hawkdoc60]

Well, if worse comes to worst, the transmission DOES have over 400K on it, if it needs to be retired, then it deserves it. LOL It did its job and did it well.

[roycehof]

Most likely the case is salvageable - You need to split it and take a look. In the two transmissions I have played with the case was fine but the bearing was trash with the balls falling out during dismantling. You really need to take it apart and look. The factory input shaft bearings are sealed units, (the replacements may or may not be). These bearings are not taper pin bearings (like rear wheel bearings) the are ball bearings with a cage to hold them in place and an inner and outer race. It appears that the cage fails and the balls start to wear away at the races. Bottom line - you have to inspect to make sure the shaft didn't hit the end of the case or the bearings didn't spin in the holder. If I was a betting man, I would lay odds that the case is O.K.