Setting ignition timing--need help

[TominMO]

Tried to advance the ignition timing per the Haynes manual. Ran into a bunch of problems. Car is a '90 EFI 5-speed.

Haynes sez to ground the STI terminal to the engine with a jumper wire. I think this is a white female connector (insert crude joke here) near the power brake booster. I did so and the car will not start. Undo the ground, car starts. Put ground back in, car stalls. So that didn't work.

Located the timing marks on the block, by the pulley. Could not find any mark on the pulley itself for the timing light to see, to check timing. Plus if it's necessary to have that ground thing in, maybe I wouldn't get a good reading anyway.

The disty rotates counterclockwise, according to Haynes. Therefore advancing the timing would consist of rotating the disty cap clockwise, correct? I had VERY little adjustment left to rotate it clockwise, so I moved it all the way over. I am advancing the timing to see if this improves fuel mileage. And I am using 93 octane to prevent detonation with advanced timing.

Any thoughts, suggestions, rude comments about my intelligence, etc.

[Pu241]

Been there, did that!

Check this out:

http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/showpost.php?p=187673&postcount=4

[TominMO]

Been there, did that!

Check this out:
http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...73&postcount=4

OK, now how about the pulley timing mark? I rotated the pulley by pushing the car while in gear; couldn't see any mark on the pulley. BTW should I be looking on the crank pulley? That's the only one that makes sense to me.

I'm guessing that each tick mark on the block timing marks is two degrees. And does rotating the disty clockwise advance timing?

[Pu241]

Timing itself gets a little tricky.
Yes, the crank pulley should have a mark on it and the block a series of marks, one in the shape of a "T".
The other option, I believe, is a pointer on the block and a series of marks on the pulley.
I need to look in the manual to clarify.
Note-the pointer is often broken off

You can also put a socket on the crank nut with a 18" breaker and rotate the engine that way.
Easier with plugs out, but doable with them in.

[TominMO]

Timing itself gets a little tricky.
Yes, the crank pulley should have a mark on it and the block a series of marks, one in the shape of a "T".

Yeah I have the series of marks with the T, but can't find the mark on the crank pulley. I'll try again tmw. Thanks.

[WmWatt]

Look for a notch in the edge of the pulley. The paint may be gone. Repaint notch.

[TominMO]

Look for a notch in the edge of the pulley. The paint may be gone. Repaint notch.

Yeah I tried, couldn't find the notch; but I'll try again.

[sanjeet]

The notch is on the inner ring and it is a small V so the term notch may have confused, it is best marked with a paper white out and so is the "T" mark when you time the engine with the strobe you will be able to clearly see the set points.

When I time I have everything connected and I start the engine and plug the vacuum lines with golf tee's then speed the engine to about 750rpm (use the instrument Taco).

loosen the two bolt holding the dizzy and rotate it you will see the marks move (as a tip I set my Flying Festy to 1deg before TDC), also remember when you re-gap the spark plugs this will alter the timing

In New Zealand we use the metric system and the spark plug gap is set to 1mm (so you will need to convert to imperial).

its good fun doing the timing yourself and you can save heaps and have an efficient running engine saving at the pump, petrol here is around $1.66(NZ) a litre, 4 litres is approximately one imperial gallon and your gallon is slightly less (gas=petrol)

[TominMO]

^^ Thanks for the advice. I will be doing this later in the week.

[blkfordsedan]

I had the same problem when I tried to set mine. I found the notch in the pulley edge, but I had both timing marks on the block and a pointer on the other side, so I timed it by ear and called it close enough. I would like to actually set it with a light sometime.

Try to use gas without any Ethanol for best mileage. We don't have 93 Octane here, but most of the 92 Octane now has a E10 blend. Best efficiency is achieved by getting the most complete burn of the mixture and the highest cylinder pressure at the most precise moment in piston travel (just after TDC). Too soon and the piston runs into the advancing combustion front, too late and the piston runs away from it. Higher octane fuel burns slower and takes more heat to ignite. High compression engines require higher Octane to prevent the mixture from pre-igniting from the increased heat generated by the higher compression. The ignition timing must then be advanced to start the combustion process earlier to allow for the extra time required for the slower burn rate of the higher Octane fuel.
In a nutshell, octane is dictated by compression and advancing the timing is required only to compensate for the burn characteristics of the higher octane. Using higher octane in a low compression engine just to allow more timing advance is going to a lot of extra work and may even hurt efficiency.
87 Octane is sufficient and you should be able to find the "sweet spot" more easy using the faster burn rate of 87 octane.

This is just my understanding and I'm not trying to criticize or discourage you. I think it's great to see you experiment and actually put the theories to a "real world" test! Please keep us posted on your progress!

[sanjeet]

Interesting comments about the octane ratings as in new Zealand we have only two options at the pump and that is unleaded 91 (that I run the Festiva on) and unleaded 96, so when 1 time it up 1deg before TDC mark that gives the best performance on that octane rating...the strobe light is really precise when you high-light the timing marks with a spot of paper white out....my Festiva has a carburetter (1992).

so good luck and once you have mastered the timing jot a note in the back of your manual so you don't forget the procedure...good luck and let us know how you get on

[Pu241]

Interesting comments about the octane ratings as in new Zealand we have only two options at the pump and that is unleaded 91 (that I run the Festiva on) and unleaded 96 ...

Yes, noticed that when I was over there in Feb, but couldn't find out how the octane value was determined in NZ. In the US our pumps are tagged with a octane rating that is the average of the motor octane number and the research octane number rating (MON+RON/2).
So depending on how NZ determines octane your fuel may have a higher or lower octane value relative to the US. So adjustments may need to consider this.
I personally left my timing at factory settings and run 89 octane, preferably without ethanol, and shoot for max MPG.

Also noticed NZ has many more diesel small trucks and cars than the US, was looking for a diesel 1.7 PN engine found in the Mazda 323 familia.
But, no joy.
maybe on my next trip!

[TominMO]

I had the same problem when I tried to set mine. I found the notch in the pulley edge, but I had both timing marks on the block and a pointer on the other side, so I timed it by ear and called it close enough. I would like to actually set it with a light sometime.

Try to use gas without any Ethanol for best mileage. We don't have 93 Octane here, but most of the 92 Octane now has a E10 blend. Best efficiency is achieved by getting the most complete burn of the mixture and the highest cylinder pressure at the most precise moment in piston travel (just after TDC). Too soon and the piston runs into the advancing combustion front, too late and the piston runs away from it. Higher octane fuel burns slower and takes more heat to ignite. High compression engines require higher Octane to prevent the mixture from pre-igniting from the increased heat generated by the higher compression. The ignition timing must then be advanced to start the combustion process earlier to allow for the extra time required for the slower burn rate of the higher Octane fuel.
In a nutshell, octane is dictated by compression and advancing the timing is required only to compensate for the burn characteristics of the higher octane. Using higher octane in a low compression engine just to allow more timing advance is going to a lot of extra work and may even hurt efficiency.
87 Octane is sufficient and you should be able to find the "sweet spot" more easy using the faster burn rate of 87 octane.

This is just my understanding and I'm not trying to criticize or discourage you. I think it's great to see you experiment and actually put the theories to a "real world" test! Please keep us posted on your progress!

Thanks for the education...I knew some of this well, other details hazily or not at all. Haven't gotten around to doing the timing again, but will keep you posted if I figure this out.

[blkfordsedan]

It is possible that MBT may be found with the timing advanced enough that you will indeed have to use higher octane. Guess it all depends on how much room for improvement the factory left, and the easiest way to find out is to do exactly what your doing. My guess is that with a Festiva, fuel economy was one of their main objectives. The fuel may be set up for a slightly lean mixture (and therefore less timing) at part throttle/cruise. I know on my '04 Mustang, there is a little room left by the factory. Most aftermarket strategy tuners will both increase the timing and richen the fuel

I don't know if the timing advance is controlled by the ECU on our Festivas or not. I wonder if changing the base timing will have any effect on part or WOT? And, if the timing changes, will the computer compensate by changing the fuel mixture? Maybe someone who knows how the Festiva system operates will chime in. I know just enough about it to be dangerous. I think I'll just wait for your results.

[lancerevo]

The only thing I noticed with the timing advanced more than 10degrees btdc, was the engine seems harder to turn and start and never really noticed a power increase from advancing timing more than 10deg.