Car hesitates and runs badly. Kia Pride

[pher]

The car is a 3 door, fuelinjected yes, it was available in 5 doors version also. It was sold until year 2000 here i my country. It was sold between ~97-2000 here.

The Kia Pride was sold as one of the cheapest car you could buy here in Sweden. However it got bad critisism for its safety and that it was an old construction and so on so unfortunatly not so many were sold here i Sweden. However I think they are really good cars, if i just got my car fixed =) Then its a keeper =).

I guess the only diffrence is that this car has some more "enviromental" stuff than yours. Looks about the same, some minor diffrences in the engine.

Zoom: I dont know the diffrence between the Apire and My Kia Pride, but I did watch some videos at Utube and it looks like it is about the same engine? Thanks for your diagram, seems to add up with what is on my car.

I will check if I have missed any Vacuumline, but I dont think so.

The vacuum going throuh some sort of valve to the purge canister, this one I am able to blow through. Under the Canister there is a hose that is "open", thats makes it possible, guess thats ok? I blow in the vacuumcable going to the purge canister, there are two intake in the top of the purge canister (one from gastank I guess) and one in the bottom that goes straigt out (open). Hope you understand.

The sound that I thought was a leaking sound turned out to be the injectors (my guess)Because when killing the engine by disconnecting some cables to a vacuumrelay. The engine stops and the injectors keep running for a couple of seconds before the are automaticly turned of, and thats is what sounds lika a leak I guess.


Perhaps it could be the fuelpump that is weak around low rpm and not giving enough fuel. I have not changed the fuelpump. You know for the most part the car runs ok, really strange error. I have to read about how to replace that one, and so on.


Thanks everybody for your help! :-)

[pher]

Idle air control (iac) valve

Looking at the Vacuum Distribution diagram, I think I have missed checked the IDLE AIR CONTROL (IAC) VALVE and perhaps also the Vacuum Reservoir. Could you point me in the right direction?

Where is the IAC located?


Another Question, looking at hoses that connects to the intake manifold I think water is coming in and out to the intake manifold, could this be correct? Is the intake cooled with water? I havent disconnected this hoses because thoose hoses are thicker and one is connected to a hose which is running coolingwater and one of the hoses goes the "back" of the engine, (near firewall).

[zoom zoom]

Zoom, did you even watch the videos? if not please do so you can catch up with the rest of us. a '95 aspire has nothing in common with his engine other than the block and head.

Just from looking at the pics of his engine bay, I can trace almost every vacuum line on the diagram, with the exception of the IAC Valve. It might be there and I'm just not seeing it since it's 6 am and i just got off a 12 hour shift.


I would try to clean your EGR Valve, maybe it's gunked up, does it actually stall out sometimes? Either way, removing and cleaning the EGR is just going to help, and if it fixes the idle issue, it was worth it. My dad had a grand am that liked to drop idle like your car is doing.. when it was accelerating it would do fine, and while driving it was fine, it was hit and miss while sitting still, occasionally it would just idle really rough, eventually after awhile it started stalling at red lights and anytime it just sat and idled.. we ended up spending over 300$ replacing other parts before he took it to a shop and they replaced the EGR and fixed it.


I would not blame the fuel pump at all.. since it does start and run it's getting some fuel, your car would most likely be stalling if it even starts and surging at speeds if it even stayed running if the pump was starting to go bad..

[zoom zoom]

also, I just looked at my "EVAP" Canister, the "Purge Canister" as the diagram refers to it, mine has a hose attached to the bottom that just goes down to the bottom of the engine bay and isn't attached to anything, so that's fine.

and... don't unhook those hoses that you think are water, they are comming from and going to your antifreeze lines, T'd off of the heater core hoses, which do run to your firewall.


the "idle air control" is referred to as a ISC-BPA, or a "Idle Speed Control-Bypass Air"

"It's a cylindrical shaped solenoid located next to the intake manifold below the intake plenum"

the black plastic thing on the back, that's your resevoir, the big vacuum hose comming off the intake assembly in the front, and wrapping around the side T's into your "IAC" Valve then continues to wrap around to your resevoir.

The big difference between our cars is the MAF sensor, which you don't have, and the distributor..o and the transmission.. i'm not sure about the internals of the head & engine....

[pher]

MAF Sensor

Ok, thanks for your description, it really helps.


The EGR valve has been cleaned reasently and seems to work fine. I can apply manually "vacuum" to the hose that connects to it and i "plopps" as if it closes and opens. And also the "car inspection" (passing done yearly by authorities) did pass the exhaust that it puts out. So the exhaustreadings were ok.

One thing I havent changed is the air filter, I have just "cleaned" it by "hitting/clapping" it and put the most dust away.
However, perhaps its is the MAF sensor, that has to be cleaned? As FestYboy pointed out I do have a MAP system, but it still has a MAF sensor (Hot wire sensor) I guess? Perhaps you have the same as I have Zoom in your Aspire? I do understand that Festivas has a VAF system.

I did read JohnGunns description here, and perhaps the readings from my MAF sensor (if I have one?) is bad? As I sad earlier in a post, removing the contact doesnt change anything..

http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37988

I just might try to clean that one, does anyone have a description that might work for this?

Zoom, do you have the same MAF sensor as I have in your car? Sitting on the airbox to the left (looking into the motor from the front).

I will try to take a picture of it later.

If someone has a link to some info regarding testing the MAF sensor, that would help.

With this help I get from you guys, the car will soon be perfectly againg! Thanks.

[FestYboy]

our MAF system has a 5 wire connection at the airbox (between the box and air tube running to the throtle body) other thand theIAT sensor, i didn't see any other harness connection near the air box where a MAF might be. Since you have a MAP system, i doubt that there's need for a MAF as well (though MAF systems DO usually have a MAP sensor as well, but not the other way arround).

[pher]

Thing are getting clearer, thanks to you =)


Now I know where the MAP Sensor is, it looks like the picture I have attached. A Vaccum cable goes to this one, and if I pull that vacuumcable the car runs really bad, no idle and runs on a couple of cylinder when much throttle.

When I pull the electrical wires to this MAP sensor, the engine dies when running on idle. This was the cable I pulled when I could hear the injectors running a couple of seconds after the engine hade died (sounding as a leak).

But I also have a Sensor that sits in my Intake Airbox, with two connections I think. This must be some sort of "Hot Wire" (MAF, with only two cables?), I will look into it and take a picture later when I get the opportunity.

Thank you FesYboy for your support :-)

[FestYboy]

that 2 wire connection is your IAT sensor (intake air temprature)

[pher]

Map system video

Ok, aha, IAT, thanks FestYboy.

I did measure the IAT today, and it was about 2,3 MOhm i normal temperature outside. When I blowed (breath) it did go down in resistance to less than 2 MOhm, so that sensor seems to be ok.

The idle issue has become much better fore some reason, so I took it for a spin and at first:

It ran lika a champ, and it purred like a kitten! ... for the first couple of kilometers. I was so glad, and was hoping that the problem had vanished.

But no, some coughs is still there, hmm.. coughfed about 3 times during a trip of about 17 kilometer~/1,6 = miles. However the idle is much better now and I could not get it to jump back in the rpm meter when trying. Improvment again, but dont know what did it. Changing the spark plugs seems a bit odd to have done it.

Wondering if it might be the ECU that is adapting or something, when still doing the coughs? I have read somewhere that the ECU takes some time to get everything straight.. Wonder how long?

Where is the ECU located on your cars?

I did a video to show the temperature sensor and perhaps you can answer my question about which is the oxygensensor and so on.

Check out the latest video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3fBs8lBrmA

Now the car is drivable atleast, and thats is a god step in the right direction, thanks to you guys, I am learning a lot about my Kia. Great Forum this is!

[zoom zoom]

The ECU or "ECM" is behind the interior fuse panel, there's all kinds of internet lore on how to reset them, I've heard everything from turn on lights/radio/electronics and unhook the battery for 10 minutes, to unhook both battery cables and touch them together..to simply unhooking the cables for 5 minutes. If you want to try and reset it, I'd just leave it unplugged overnight.. but I'm doubting its going to do anything other than mess with your radio presets!

Do you have a manual for your car? I always get one for each new vehicle..they come in really handy. The haynes manual for my car is for 88-97 festiva & aspires.

[pher]

All I have is a Festiva PDF manual (not a lot of pictures unfortunatly), and some printed version of a Kia Pride manual which I found from Kia homepage a couple of years ago, it is not available longer. However this version is for a carburator version, in other words, it doesnt add up to my newer version.

I also like to have good workshopsmanuals but havent found any for my car.