New driveshaft won't stay in transaxle

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

I recently replaced both driveshafts in a 91 with perfect body that I picked up for $100. I have yet to drive the car more than in the parking lot.

The passenger side stays in. The driver side, despite seating normally, simply will not stay in. I can drive only a hundred feet, and end up with a puddle of new ATF. When I take a look, the driveshaft is still in the transaxle's spline, but not all the way.

I've tried TWO new driver side driveshafts -- same problem. I even tried bending the little clip thing out to be a little larger diameter -- no luck.

This car will rust here in AK before I ever need to replace the driveshafts again. Is there anything I can do to make it stay in, even permanently?

OR, is there something wrong inside the transaxle? Am I going to need to put in another transaxle? I have several here that I could use, but I've never done this kind of thing and it's starting to get COLD and DARK up here.

Before starting, I drained the transaxle fluild -- only a small amount came out -- this problem, if it is indeed internal damage to the transaxle, may have started before I bought the car.

[eurotiva]

You need to look at the LCA ( lower control arm) It houses the ball joint and if it is worn it will allow the axle to move outward enough to leak. Replace that and you will be good. I have been there before. Good luck and post if its fixed.

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

The driveshaft is coming out enough to expose a full half-inch or so of shiny metal that should remain inside the oil seal (which, BTW, I replaced). I'll check the ball joint when I get a bit of daylight at the end of the workday on Tuesday, but I can't imagine that there would be that much play in the ball joint. Also, when I drove the car home from the seller's place this summer, it drove, steered, and stopped straight as an arrow, with absolutely no shimmy, even on the freeway at 60mph, and no noises.

I opened up a spare transaxle (split the two pieces apart) to see just what holds a driveshaft in. It seems to be nothing but the little clip on the end of the driveshaft expanding after it goes through the spline in the differential. Suppose some previous owner used a sledgehammer to pull on the driveshaft. Couldn't that have mangled (even broken) the transaxle's spline to the point that it no longer has a "square" inside lip, i.e. maybe it's now tapered to some extent, preventing the clip from doing its job? Unfortunately, I can't get close enough to see well inside the splines on the transaxle that's in the car.

[David88]

Sounds very frustrating. Don't get discouraged. Sounds like a nice car. I've been thinking on this one. Did the old clip come out? Do you know for sure? Did you have a problem getting the shaft out the first time? The only way you may be able tho check the groove/splines with out opening it up is one of those tiny round mirrors on a stick. If you've seen them its like the telescoping antenna rod with a small mirror that is on a pivot. if its small enough you could get in there and shine a light in and see if that groove for the clip is clear. I've heard that if the transaxle gets knocked or jolted when the shaft is out, something inside come move/drop down and cause issues. If never had it happen and ive moved stored and transported trannys without issue. Junkyard guys told me thats why they torch the CV shafts and leave the end in there when you buy a trans. Maybe someone know more about this issue?

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

David88,

Thanks for thinking on this!

The "original" shaft (the one the was in the car when I bought it this summer) came out completely normally and has a perfectly normal clip still on it.

You indicated that the clip goes into a groove inside the transaxle. From what I see on my partially-disassembled spare transaxle, it appears more like that the clip might simply expand after it passes completely though the splined inside of the differential gear, i.e. there is no "groove" per se. That would allow a clip that breaks to simply fall to the bottom of the transaxle, rather than staying in the "groove" and preventing insertion of a new shaft. I think I'll bring the spare transaxle inside and disassemble it some more (it's not obvious what to do to get the shifting gears to actually come out of it so I can pull the big gears out of the differential area -- the shifting gears block removal of the large differential gears into which the shaft goes).

I do have some mirrors on sticks. A boroscope with flexible cable would be the ideal tool to use here.

Anybody else have any ideas?

[Bathtub Tom]

I'd give the new drive shaft a hefty thump, see if that locates it.

[scitzz]

Silly thing I did once, when changing the drive shafts....

I left the sway bar bolt loose when I test drove it. About 1/2 a block and the drivers side axle popped out (that is why we test drive, nobody is perfect )

So, yeah, a bad ball joint MIGHT cause it, or MAYBE bad bushings? A loose bolt there, like I did? Is the ball joint all the way in the knuckle? The LCA is connected to the body properly? ALL the sway bar mounting bolts are tight/nothing is loose on it, bushings etc....

You have checked to be sure the stake nut stayed tight, right?

Just throwing out everything I can think of!

[sam.1956]

V8Festiva and I spent a week in Transmission Hell because of this exact problem. Turns out (for our car), the nuts on the rear trans mount had backed all the way out (where it seats into the cross member) which let the trans/engine assembly shift just enough to pop the axle out when you drove the car ANY distance (even a few feet).

Once we wrangled the trans mount back into the cross member & fastened it securely (this time with a generous application of thread locker), no more popping out axle. It's been No-Problem-o for 3 weeks now and we've really beat on the car, trying to make the axle pop out.

[scitzz]

Once we wrangled the trans mount back into the cross member & fastened it securely (this time with a generous application of thread locker),

I lurves me some thread locker! Especially on the trans to engine bolts!

[eurotiva]

Just check your lcas for me.

[chrisofna]

Maybe the guy replaced that side with an Aspire one by mistake?

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

OK, I checked everything for looseness. The ball joint is tight with intact boot. The sway bar rubber parts are nice and soft and the sway bar end is properly cottered. The tie rod end (not that it matters for this problem) is also fine.

When I pushed the driveshaft into the transaxle, I did feel a little "click" so I know it's in. It is, however, not that hard to pull out, alway on the first try. That's what makes me think something's wrong inside the transaxle, since it shouldn't be THAT easy!

As far as the transaxle to body attach, it's really hard to get at that wtih no lift.

Other thoughts:
1. Is there supposed to be some sort of spring in the driveshaft where it telescopes in order to "push" at all times? What happens when the suspension extends (wheel going into a pothole, for example) quickly? Does that telescoping part extend fast enough to prevent the shaft from pulling out of the transaxle if, as I indicated above, it doesn't take much pull to make it come out? It would seem that the clip inside the gearbox would be taking substantial pull force on it if there's no spring.
2. If I do decide to simply replace the transaxle with one of two spares I have here, how do I know what's 4- vs. 5-speed? Do I have to have it opened up to tell? Or hook up some shifter hard on some sort of jury-rigged frame to apply the proper pressures? What do I use for sealant when putting a transaxle case back together?
3. Maybe I should bite the bulllet and pay somebody (a transmission shop) with a lift to do a gearbox swap and put in a new clutch at the same time, since I have no idea how much life is left on this car's clutch. It actuates very smoothly (no jerking), but the odometer shows 103K and the speedo cable is broken, so it could have substantially more on it (despite the perfect rust-free body), and could all be on the original clutch.

[TominMO]

Properly used, these clutches last a long time; 103K miles is not necessarily a cause for concern. If it works don't fix it. BTW, 4-speed and 5-speed CV axles are the same. To tell if you have a 5-speed transaxle, you should be able to move it into 5th gear with the shifter; on a 4-speed, you can't.

[GenevaDirt]

I forget who,,,but someone mentioned that they changed the new clip with the old clip to get theirs to stay in.

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

Re Chrisofna's question as to whether I'm trying to use an Apsire shaft (or what about a Festiva automatic shaft), does anybody know how to tell the difference from a Festiva manual driver's side shaft? BTW, I purchased both new shafts from NAPA based on year and "manual." Their length matches the shaft I removed exactly (though I suspect the previous owner had this problem, since very little fluid came out when I drained the transaxle).

Does anybody know how to tell whether a transaxle is 4- or 5-speed with it out of the car? Is there something stamped onto the case? Without the leverage of the gear shift handle, it seems very hard to try shifting it when sitting on the ground (or in the case of one of my spares, opened up on the bench).

Every 10 days, we lose another hour of daylight up here, and it gets colder, so I have to get to the bottom of this soon.