93 festiva no spark

[wybnrml]

Are the fuel lines at the rail on the right spots. Members have had problems in the past with the return line and in line mixed up. Switch the lines at the rail and see if it starts.

[MTec007]

^^ X2 check to make sure your injectors are not plugged.. they may be "working" but just plugged up with debris? if your getting fuel to the injectors but not to the cylinder then thats your answer, i dont know how to "check" them besides to see if they squirt fuel.. but be careful if you check the injectors when they are not mounted, pressurized gas can be very dangerous to you and can spark real fast.

[tim jeffery]

thanks for all the help guys, but i,m back to square one again, no power from coil,(power to coil) 3 differnt coils all duds?? i,ll breakdown and buy a new one, and let you know what happens. i tested the ign. moduale its doing what its supposed to. tim

[JohnGunn]

thanks for all the help guys, but i,m back to square one again, no power from coil,(power to coil) 3 differnt coils all duds?? i,ll breakdown and buy a new one, and let you know what happens. i tested the ign. moduale its doing what its supposed to. tim

I agree with you "3 different coils all duds??" Not likely. More likely is some other problem you are overlooking. I think you would be wise to concentrate first on getting the ignition working perfectly before worrying about fuel delivery.

Here is the most basic test for a coil. Nothing is tested but the coil, 12 volts to the coil, and a grounded engine.

1. Turn the key on to provide 12 volts to the coil.

2. Hold the wire taken from the middle of the distributor 1/4" from some exposed metal part of the engine.

3. Disconnect one of the wires from your coil, if a carbed model, or unplug the electrical connector from the fuel injected coil.

4. Look for a spark between wire and engine at the moment the wire or connector is unplugged.

If all three of your "bad" coils fail this test I will be amazed. It might help if you had someone to assist you in doing the tests so that one of you can hold the wire and give complete attention to watching for a spark.

John Gunn
Coronado, CA

[tim jeffery]

i bought a brand new coil still no spark, any other ideas, whats this crank relay thing all about. thanks tim

[JohnGunn]

Just curious. Did you do the test I suggested?

John Gunn
Coronado, CA

[tim jeffery]

hi john, i tried that, but saw no spark, i did not try it with the brand new coil, just assumed if it doesnt start with a brand new coil it must be some thing else. with the key on there is 12 volt coming out of the coil. thanks tim

[JohnGunn]

Hi, Tim.

I've just gone back and reread this thread. Your problem should not be a difficult one to analyze. Mainly because it is easily producible, i.e. your car refuses to start, at all times. The really difficult problems are the ones which come intermittently, and are difficult to catch in the act of failing. So relax. This problem will be relatively easy to solve.

But even easy problems become difficult when you fail to approach them in an orderly fashion. When your car turns over but refuses to start, the first thing to establish is where to start testing. In order to have an engine fire you need fuel in the combustion chamber which is ignited by an electronic spark delivered at the appropriate instant. So when an engine refuses to start, most people will try and establish whether the problem is caused by a lack of fuel or the lack of a spark at the appropriate instant.

My belief is that the ignition is usually at fault. Many of the parts needed to deliver the spark are consumable items that are expected to eventually fail in use unless they are replaced at specified internals, e.g. spark plugs, wires, etc. Aside from periodic fuel filter replacement there are no such parts in the fuel delivery system.

Still, it is easy to establish if a lack of fuel is the cause of the engine not firing. Spray some starting fluid into the plenum through the opening where the hose from the brake booster attaches. Replace the hose and try and start the car. If it fires, then fuel delivery is likely to be at fault.

To test the ignition you have only to hold the wire from the center of the coil to within 1/4" of some bare metal on the engine. When the engine turns over you should see a spark jump through that 1/4" gap. If it is difficult to see, do the test at night using a flashlight to get ready and turning off the light just before you start the test.

Once you have decided which system is failing you should start to analyze that system making corrections until it works perfectly. Jumping back and forth between fuel delivery and ignition problems is certain to bring confusion and break the necessary logical flow.

My suggestion is that you start with the ignition. I think the spark test from the coil is a good place to begin. For the coil to produce spark you need the following:

1. A 12V direct current through the primary winding of the coil.

2. A means of interrupting that current which will trigger the secondary of the coil to discharge, producing the spark that eventually reaches the spark plugs.

You tested the voltage at the input to the coil and have found it to be 12V. But that is not in itself enough to fulfill the requirement of having a current flowing through the primary winding. When you read 12V with your meter the meter creates a small current between the place where you place the positive probe and the place where you place the negative probe. But this is no guarantee that there is any current other than the one provided by the meter.

What you need to establish is that there is a connection to ground that the 12V at the coil can flow to and produce the needed current to charge the primary winding. That ground is provided through the ignition module. The center slot in the connector to the ignition module is connected to a black wire which is grounded on the engine. It is attached to the engine just behind the connector that the wire from the O2 sensor is plugged into. On my '90 L there are two black wires held in place by a 10mm bolt. You should be able to use your meter to test the continuity between the middle wire of the ignition module connector and that bolt.

If you find that the middle black wire is connected to ground, and the test I gave you still shows no spark, the problem is most likely with the ignition module. I've been told some parts places can test these for free. Otherwise I would look for a used one on this site or at a local junk yard, and give that a try.

In any case, there is no point looking for another source of your problem until this one is solved. Your car will not start until your coil produces a spark.

Just remember, your problem is not as difficult as it appears to you right now.

John Gunn
Coronado, CA

[LittleHoe]

Dunno if it was mentioned or not but just for poos and giggles did you check the rollover switch in the drivers rear of the car, accessable through the hatch?

[tim jeffery]

hi john i have got 4 ign. moduales, and have tried them all, i will check that ground connector you mentioned thanks. little hoe i checked that roll over switch, thanks. when the engine is cranking the power from the coil out is reduced to about 6 volts. thanks tim

[JohnGunn]

hi john i have got 4 ign. moduales, and have tried them all, i will check that ground connector you mentioned thanks. little hoe i checked that roll over switch, thanks. when the engine is cranking the power from the coil out is reduced to about 6 volts. thanks tim

Puzzled that the voltage at the coil drops by half while cranking.

Has the battery run down with all the cranking and no charging? How does it act if the headlights are on while cranking?

If battery is good you should check out the wiring from the battery to the coil to make sure the connections are clean and tight. Here is a list of places to check.

1. Positive battery terminal.
2. "Main" fusible link.
3. White wire from fusible link to single connector below the battery and behind the drivers side headlight. (Mine has a translucent soft plastic hood on it.)
4. White wire from connector to ignition switch.
5. Black/white wire from ignition switch to + terminal on coil.

John Gunn
Coronado, CA

[Mike McKown]

Puzzled that the voltage at the coil drops by half while cranking.

Fwiw...................

On one of my new acquisitions I had put a new head on it before I ever got it running first time. I got the thing back together and then tried to start the engine with a weak battery. It'd turn over but it was slow. Had breaking spark at the high tension coil wire but wouldn't start.

I put a NEW battery in the car and it cranked right up.

I have no idea why it wouldn't start with the weak battery because I had fire at the spark plug wires actually. Sometimes, you can see a spark outside the combustion chamber but it won't fire inside the cylinder under compression pressure.

[Pu241]

I have no idea why it would start with the weak battery because I had fire at the spark plug wires actually. Sometimes, you can see a spark outside the combustion chamber but it won't fire inside the cylinder under compression pressure.

My guess, the resistance of the material in the spark gap under engine compression is high enough to suppress a weak spark.
resistance of air under near STP conditions is likely less and shows a spark.
That said, I would have thought if you could crank it over, there would have been enough voltage to fire the mixture.
even if you only had say 10V to the primary would have thought the output of the secondary would have been sufficient.
Wonder if you have a weak coil?

[Mike McKown]

My guess, the resistance of the material in the spark gap under engine compression is high enough to suppress a weak spark.
resistance of air under near STP conditions is likely less and shows a spark.
That said, I would have thought if you could crank it over, there would have been enough voltage to fire the mixture.
even if you only had say 10V to the primary would have thought the output of the secondary would have been sufficient.
Wonder if you have a weak coil?

That was six months ago. The car runs fine. I believe your first paragraph is repeating what I said in my post about the weak spark. With the new battery, I had a fat, hot spark. The weak battery was a weak spark but a spark, nonetheless. Maybe that is the same problem with the car in question in this thread?

[Levitan]

I'll bet he has a bad resistor(not sure if that is what it's called) behind the battery, behind the driver's side headlight, behind and beneath the radiator overflow bottle bracket. There are three of them, up in a rubber sheath. One is for the headlights, not sure what the other one is for, and one is for power. Consult with Musclecar1, he had the same problem.