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Crankshaft won't turn

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  • #1

    Crankshaft won't turn

    In the middle of adjusting the timing belt....

    Backstory:
    Previous owner replaced the valve cover gasket because it was slowly leaking. The replacement was terrible, it leaked even worse and dumped oil onto the timing belt among other things. The timing belt flung oil for miles, but finally it slipped a tooth or three. The PO says it runs, but very rough. He showed me it turned over and I heard a few put puts, so it was something to work with.

    I bought it (http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=33103) and figured I could tackle the timing belt adjustment.

    I started it and it ran very rough. I shut it down after a few seconds and looked over the rest of the car. When I tried to show my dad later that night how it runs, it just clicked really hard (not like a solenoid click or something, but a k-JUNK kind of click). I thought it might have been a low battery or something that couldn't push past a compression stroke so I charged up the battery. Same story. Jumped it. Same story.

    The last few posts from the link above detail my problem more specifically, but the main points are:

    This is an automatic, it's not mtx in gear
    I've removed the spark plugs
    I can turn the camshaft with a wrench
    I can't turn the crankshaft either with a wrench or (as the timing belt how-to asks) by wrenching on the camshaft with the timing belt in place.
    The crankshaft does move, but only a quarterish turn.

    It feels like there's something in the way of me turning the crankshaft any further and I'm imaginig that's what's holding up the starter as well.

    What do I look for? Thanks in advance.
    -Zack
    Blue '93 GL Auto: White 13" 5 Point Wheels, Full LED Conversion, and an 8" Sub
    Tags: crankshaft, timing, trouble
  • #2
    I haven't changed the timing belt with the engine in the car. I put it on while it was on the engine stand. Just remove the timing belt cover and bump the starter until the marks line up. The most important thing about the timing belt install is making sure the tensioner is properly.

    Comment

    • #3
      Sorry for the stupid question, but is your ATX in neutral?

      Karl
      '93GL "Prettystiva" ticking B3 and 5 speed, backup DD; full swaps in spring!
      '91L "AquaMutt" my '91L; B6 swap/5 speed & Aspire brakes, DD/work car
      '92L "Twinstiva" 5sp, salvage titled, waiting for repairs...
      '93GL "Luxstiva," '94 B6 engine & ATX; needs overhauled
      '89L "Muttstiva," now a storage bin, future trailer project

      Comment

      • #4
        This may be a stupid question. I know yours is an automatic, but was it in neutral when you tried to rotate the crank? It still needs to be in neutral with an auto. Otherwise, sounds like something is going on with the piston rods.
        At least something internal. If you cant figure it out, you may have to pull the motor and oil pan to see whats up in there. Something may have fallen down in there too, causing a blockage, but unlikely.
        Last edited by drddan; 01-05-2011, 10:33 AM.
        Dan




        Red 1988 Festiva L - CUJO

        Black 1992 Festiva GL Sport - BLACK MAGIC

        I'm just...a little slow... sometimes:withstupid:

        R.I.P.
        Blue 1972 Chevelle SS-468 C.I.D. B'nM TH400-4:56 posi-Black racing stripes-Black vinyl top-Black int.
        Black on black 1976 Camaro LT-350 4 bolt main .060 over
        Silver 1988 Festiva L

        My Music!
        http://www.reverbnation.com/main/sea...t_songs/266647

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by bravekozak View Post
          I haven't changed the timing belt with the engine in the car. I put it on while it was on the engine stand. Just remove the timing belt cover and bump the starter until the marks line up. The most important thing about the timing belt install is making sure the tensioner is properly.
          Bumping the starter gives me big k-JUNKs
          Originally posted by Safety Guy View Post
          Sorry for the stupid question, but is your ATX in neutral?

          Karl
          Not a stupid question! No, it's not in neutral but my understanding of ATXs is that there is a torque converter that makes no physical connection between the engine and transmission... just the transmission fluid it spins is what transfers the energy - hense less efficient.

          I'll try it in neutral
          Last edited by crazyrog17; 01-05-2011, 10:33 AM.
          -Zack
          Blue '93 GL Auto: White 13" 5 Point Wheels, Full LED Conversion, and an 8" Sub

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by drddan View Post
            This may be a stupid question. I know yours is an automatic, but was it in neutral when you tried to rotate the crank? It still needs to be in neutral with an auto. Otherwise, sounds like something is going on with the piston rods.
            At least something internal. If you cant figure it out, you may have to pull the motor and oil pan to see whats up in there. Something may have fallen down in there too, causing a blockage, but unlikely.
            Alright, two votes for neutral.

            Lets hope this was just a bonehead mistake. I'll brb.
            -Zack
            Blue '93 GL Auto: White 13" 5 Point Wheels, Full LED Conversion, and an 8" Sub

            Comment

            • #7
              So far, bumped starter in neutral - no dice.

              Sidenote: God love garage computers. This eMac is perfect for the job haha.
              -Zack
              Blue '93 GL Auto: White 13" 5 Point Wheels, Full LED Conversion, and an 8" Sub

              Comment

              • #8
                Don't think it has to be in neutral if it's an automatic. As long as it's in park, the crankshaft should turn. (Thinking crank should turn the same as when it's being started via starter). Have you tried turning the crank backwards to verify that it doesn't stop as it does going forward?
                You posted the above as I was typing my question/comment.
                Last edited by Team Lightning; 01-05-2011, 10:45 AM.
                Jerry
                Team Lightning



                Owner of Team Lightning
                90 L "Peewee" B6D. Bought new May 16,1990
                92 L Thunder BP G5M-R Turbo B6T electronics. Jan 2016 FOTM winner SOLD
                93 L Lightning. BP



                Not a user of drugs or alcohol, Just addicted to Festiva's

                Comment

                • #9
                  Is there oil in the engine ??? Sounds like the crank locked up to me. Looks like your pulling your first engine. Park or neutral should give you the same thing if your trying to turn it with a wrench and it's not moving then the crank is locked. In most cases your better of to look for an engine to replace yours do to the damage already done. Just my thoughts !!!!!!
                  New build on the way .

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bebandit View Post
                    Don't think it has to be in neutral if it's an automatic. As long as it's in park, the crankshaft should turn. (Thinking crank should turn the same as when it's being started via starter). Have you tried turning the crank backwards to verify that it doesn't stop as it does going forward?
                    You posted the above as I was typing my question/comment.
                    Same thought train I was on...

                    I did turn the crank backwards till it stopped (it stops... ) and then the starter forwards and it too stops...

                    WTH?
                    -Zack
                    Blue '93 GL Auto: White 13" 5 Point Wheels, Full LED Conversion, and an 8" Sub

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      deff, something internal!
                      Dan




                      Red 1988 Festiva L - CUJO

                      Black 1992 Festiva GL Sport - BLACK MAGIC

                      I'm just...a little slow... sometimes:withstupid:

                      R.I.P.
                      Blue 1972 Chevelle SS-468 C.I.D. B'nM TH400-4:56 posi-Black racing stripes-Black vinyl top-Black int.
                      Black on black 1976 Camaro LT-350 4 bolt main .060 over
                      Silver 1988 Festiva L

                      My Music!
                      http://www.reverbnation.com/main/sea...t_songs/266647

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Is it possible that something could have gotten into the engine when the plugs were out?
                        Jerry
                        Team Lightning



                        Owner of Team Lightning
                        90 L "Peewee" B6D. Bought new May 16,1990
                        92 L Thunder BP G5M-R Turbo B6T electronics. Jan 2016 FOTM winner SOLD
                        93 L Lightning. BP



                        Not a user of drugs or alcohol, Just addicted to Festiva's

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Only one way to find out now. Engine pull time.
                          Not that tough. If your a strong guy, you wont even need a cherry picker. lol But I would use one anyway.
                          Last edited by drddan; 01-05-2011, 10:58 AM.
                          Dan




                          Red 1988 Festiva L - CUJO

                          Black 1992 Festiva GL Sport - BLACK MAGIC

                          I'm just...a little slow... sometimes:withstupid:

                          R.I.P.
                          Blue 1972 Chevelle SS-468 C.I.D. B'nM TH400-4:56 posi-Black racing stripes-Black vinyl top-Black int.
                          Black on black 1976 Camaro LT-350 4 bolt main .060 over
                          Silver 1988 Festiva L

                          My Music!
                          http://www.reverbnation.com/main/sea...t_songs/266647

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            I got it to crank!

                            The bad thing is, I heard something fall inside...

                            Well, I wanted to see how far I could get it to go around. I got it to go from (face of a clock...) 7:30 clockwise to 6:00.

                            Then I said, why not... I'll put the timing belt on in the right spot and see what it does... I wrenched the crank into position, got the camshaft into position and put on the belt. Readjusted the tensioner and started to hand check the timing. The instant I moved the crankshaft, I heard something drop.

                            I can crank it all the way around now though
                            -Zack
                            Blue '93 GL Auto: White 13" 5 Point Wheels, Full LED Conversion, and an 8" Sub

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              that's bad

                              I hope it's not a broken connecting rod. I would pull the engine and drop the oil pan.
                              On second thought. Phone around for a B6 engine out of a Mazda 323 and drop that back in instead. Don't bother fixing or troubleshooting the B3.
                              Last edited by bravekozak; 01-05-2011, 11:06 AM.

                              Comment

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