Both driveshafts unseated from gearbox

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

1993 5-speed.

On the first test drive after doing a clutch job, I got horrible noises after the first few miles.

A peek underneath seems to show BOTH driveshafts unseated (about 1/4" each) from the gearbox.

During the clutch job, neither driveshaft was pulled out of its front hub.

Here's the process we used:
The chosen method was this:
1. Detach sway bar from lower control arms.
2. Unbolt both calipers (keeping the fluid lines connected) and hang calipers from springs using weedwhacker wire.
3. Detach both kingpins from the struts (two big bolts each side).
4. Pull passenger driveshaft out of gearbox. Leave driver driveshaft installed.
5. Per Haines, detach and lower gearbox a ways.
6. Remove clutch, flywheel, and throwout bearing.
7. Have flywheel machined for $34.
8. Reassemble.

Other than disassembling each side in turn to get enough room to pull out and ram back in its driveshaft, does anybody have any idea what could have caused this? I'm trying to get the car ready to drive to the East Coast. I can't have something like this happening in the middle of Nowhere!

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

I opened up each side, removing the two 17mm-head bolts that hold its kingpin to the strut. In each case, I was able to pull on the axle quite a bit until the telescoping thing "bottomed out" with a soft clunk. The axles did not appear inclined to come any further. While pulled out, I looked undernearth, and sawa that the axle remained with about 1/4 of shiny metal showing just outside the gearbox. This is about the same amount of shiny metal showing on my 88, which doesn't make any noises. Is this amount of shiny metal showing normal?

However, I found that I could push each axle in and out of the outer CV joint about 1/16" -- definite movement. Is this enough to make all kinds of noises? Why didn't I notice any noise during the 6,000 miles I drove the car before replacing the clutch? Was all the clutch shuddering nonsense masking the noise of two bad axles? BTW, at least the right side axle appears to be original, since it has the damping disk still on it. The car has 106K on it now (100K when I bought it).

Obviously, I need to reassemble things and drive it more, taking note of whether the noise appears only when cornering, etc. And buy a pair of rebuilt driveshafts to have ready. Any other suggestions?

[GenevaDirt]

The 1/4" is normal....there will be a little movement as you stated. The noise you are hearing now.....is it constant or just in corners. If constant it may be bearings....

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

GenevaDirt -- I'll put things back together today and drive it again and try to determine if it's CV-related. I'm wondering now if that bit of hammering we did on a block of wood held up against the right hub to get its axle to latch back in the gearbox might have done a number on the right wheel bearing!

BTW, last night, I ordered -- just in case I need them -- a L & R rebuilt axle from Napa. I'm getting the LAST ONE OF EACH from their Seattle distribution center. They told me "We only keep offering these things as long as people keep buying them."

[Pu241]

Uh, did you refill the gear box with ATX?

Not trying to be smart, it just wasn't mentioned in your write-up.

[devon527]

Uh, did you refill the gear box with ATX?

Not trying to be smart, it just wasn't mentioned in your write-up.

Yes we did. Made sure it came up to the correct spot as well.

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

Just to be sure I have everything possible to attack this problem, today I purchased two Napa rebuilt driveshafts. I also took a pair of LCA+spindle+rotor assemblies from my "stock" (aka "laying loose in the weeds rusting somewhere") to a suspension shop and had them press in new bearings+seals. So now I have everything needed to have "all new" from gearbox outward to wheels. I'll still first try reassembling as-is by moonlight tonight and driving it for better diagnosis.

[GenevaDirt]

Just to be sure I have everything possible to attack this problem, today I purchased two Napa rebuilt driveshafts. I also took a pair of LCA+spindle+rotor assemblies from my "stock" (aka "laying loose in the weeds rusting somewhere") to a suspension shop and had them press in new bearings+seals. So now I have everything needed to have "all new" from gearbox outward to wheels. I'll still first try reassembling as-is by moonlight tonight and driving it for better diagnosis.

I hope they did not throw out spacers if they were present, and also used them on the side they came out of. Just saying.

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

I should have told the suspension shop "pay attention to spacers." Anyway, it looks like I don't have to use those "new" parts, since the noise is NOT bearings. I don't think it's CV joints either. It's in the left front of the car and happens when starting from dead stop, regardless of steering direction, basically when everything starts to get stress on it, i.e. maybe when parts that are bolted together and shouldn't have relative movement do have movement, though very slight. I can make it happen if I apply the handbrake and then gently start to let in on the clutch and the rpm drops a it; then the noise is a non-tinny (it's not bodywork) rattle.

My gut feel is that we might have forgotten to torque one of the larger bolts (e.g. gearbox to engine, gearbox to support beam, one of the several engine-to-gearbox angled thick-plate-stock reinforcing brackets, etc.) and think the best approach is just to go check that every external bolt is (1) present and (2) torqued properly.

Once the car is moving at a few mph, it's smooth as glass, even in right 90s and left 360s (roundabouts, or what you Easterners call rotaries). I took it up to 70mph on the freeway and there's no vibration.

I suppose this doesn't absolutely rule out something with the clutch, since there's only stress between parts in there while engaging, but the quickest check is as described above to visual and torque-check everything. If that doesn't solve it, then, well, we'll think about that then.

Meanwhile, I'll continue to drive it, locally, anyway.

[GenevaDirt]

check the sway bar bushings and control arm bushings.....if they are worn they will let the parts move and make noise.

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

Ah, yes, the sway bar. We had it completely off the car during the clutch job. I checked tonight to make sure both rubber parts and the large "washer" are present on each end -- they are.

I was even wondering if the clamps over the bushings, which were tightened with the car on stands, should be loosened, then retightened with the car on the ground. Is the bar supposed to be able to pivot (and/or slide horizontally) within the bushings? Might I need to put a piece of thinkwalled rubber tubing over the bar inside each of the two bushings to prevent any movement there?

I haven't checked the LCA bushings. The LCAs were NOT removed (attach bolts to unibody not even loosened) nor were the pinch bolts touched during the clutch job. I'll visually check the LCA bushings during Saturday daylight. If needed, are new LCA bushings available for purchase somewhere? Surely Napa doesn't carry that "dealer only" stuff.

I suppose another thing to check is fixed bar from the shifter area to the gearbox, which we obviously had disconnected from the gearbox. Maybe its bushing has gone bad or its bolt needs torquing.

[Festy46]

When you replaced the throwout bearing, did you make sure the new bearing "engaged" the clutch fork and that you didn't just slide it on and against the fork? Also, did you verify that the pilot bearing was good and in the flywheel correctly?

[devon527]

When you replaced the throwout bearing, did you make sure the new bearing "engaged" the clutch fork and that you didn't just slide it on and against the fork? Also, did you verify that the pilot bearing was good and in the flywheel correctly?

Yes, I followed the book on both of those anew made sure they were correct

[AlaskaFestivaGuy]

I drove it some more. It makes the noise sometimes when starting the engine. We had the exhaust downpipe off for the clutch job, so maybe something's loose there.