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Installing brake calipers and pads

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  • #1

    Installing brake calipers and pads

    1. Can I install the brake calipers and pads on a front wheel on the workbench? Would I then have a problem putting the wheel on the car? Mr Haynes only shows brakes installed on the car. I'm rebuilding a set of junkyard wheels to replace the ones on my '89 Festiva. I hope to just unbolt and plug the banjo bolt, unbolt the old wheel, and bolt on the rebuilt one (then bleed the brakes). It would be more convenient and less disruptive to my transportation to do as much work as possible on the bench.

    2. How important is the brake pad anti-squeal compound recommended by Mr Haynes? Years ago a mechanic dabbed some "copper paste" onto a noisy noisy front brake for me. It that the same stuff? Can it be done after installation if a noise appears?

    PS This morning I got one rebuilt wheel to turn by adapting a bearing spacer from the steering column of a bicycle. Took photos which I plan to post.
    Last edited by WmWatt; 06-08-2011, 06:50 AM.
    Original owner of silver grey carburetted 1989 Festiva. 105k km as of June 2006. 140k km as of June 2021.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    So... by wheel I'm guessing you mean the knuckle and hub assembly? If that is the case, then yes, you can rebuild the whole knuckle/hub/caliper/rotor/pads assembly and then just slap it on the car. To reduce loss of break fluid I'd recommend unbolting the old caliper and hanging it with a piece of wire from the strut with banjo still attached. Then remove the old stuff and install the new, and the very last step will be unbolt the banjo bolt and install it on the new (rebuilt) caliper. Don't forget to install new copper washers. I have seen reuse of old ones cause leaks before.
    Last edited by htchbck; 06-08-2011, 07:13 AM.
    No festiva for me ATM...

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    • #3
      I bought the brake pads today and asked the clerk where they keep the anti-squeal compound. He said he's replaced plenty of brake pads and never uses it.
      Original owner of silver grey carburetted 1989 Festiva. 105k km as of June 2006. 140k km as of June 2021.

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      • #4
        Two more questions...

        1. The Haynes manual says "There are two shims on the inner pad and one shim on the outer pad. Remove these shims, clean them up, and install them on the new pads." Appears I can't put the pads on the replacement wheel before removing the pads from the wheel on the car? Comments or suggestions how I might get around this?

        2. The inner and outer pads differ. How does one tell which is which? The photos in the Haynes manual don't show which is which. One pad has a metal clip attached to it. Which would that be?

        Thanks again.
        Original owner of silver grey carburetted 1989 Festiva. 105k km as of June 2006. 140k km as of June 2021.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by WmWatt View Post
          PS This morning I got one rebuilt wheel to turn by adapting a bearing spacer from the steering column of a bicycle. Took photos which I plan to post.
          this will not turn out good, you need to use the exact spacer/shim that goes with the hub. It should have been in the hub you took apart....if it did not have one then it does not need it (unless it was rebuilt and someone left it out already). If the shim is missing or was thrown out by mistake you need to get your hands on the tool used to determine proper shim required and then get it before installation.
          "FLTG4LIFE" @FINALLEVEL , "PBH"
          89L Silver EFI auto
          91GL Green Auto DD
          There ain't no rest for the wicked
          until we close our eyes for good.
           I will sleep when I die!
          I'm a little hunk of tin, nobody knows what shape I'm in. I've got four wheels and a running board, I'm not a Chevy, I'M A FORD!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by WmWatt View Post
            Two more questions...

            1. The Haynes manual says "There are two shims on the inner pad and one shim on the outer pad. Remove these shims, clean them up, and install them on the new pads." Appears I can't put the pads on the replacement wheel before removing the pads from the wheel on the car? Comments or suggestions how I might get around this?

            2. The inner and outer pads differ. How does one tell which is which? The photos in the Haynes manual don't show which is which. One pad has a metal clip attached to it. Which would that be?

            Thanks again.
            no pad shims need to reused. I have never heard of this or used any shims. Install the pads as they are in the box. You can use silencer if you have it....I rarely use it....no issues. If it does make noise it is very easy to remove the pads and add later. As far as the tab goes I forget which side it goes on. Take a look at your brakes on the car now and that should give you the answer.
            "FLTG4LIFE" @FINALLEVEL , "PBH"
            89L Silver EFI auto
            91GL Green Auto DD
            There ain't no rest for the wicked
            until we close our eyes for good.
             I will sleep when I die!
            I'm a little hunk of tin, nobody knows what shape I'm in. I've got four wheels and a running board, I'm not a Chevy, I'M A FORD!

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            • #7
              The calipers came with two copper washers. Do they go under the heads of the bolts or between the caliper and the knuckle? I have the car up on stands and peeled back the rubber on one of the old calipers but don't see a copper washer anywhere. Must be some sort of advance in caliper technology? Not mentioned In Haynes manual and I can't find anything about them in websites on how to replace calipers and pads. These are solid copper washers, not the crushable kind like you find on the oil pan bolt. So I don't think they are for the banjo bolt. Besides there are two of them.

              Interesting suggestion found on websites is to install pads on calipers before installing calipers. Must try that.

              When did they stop including instructions with replacement parts? Grrrrr!

              Thanks again.
              Original owner of silver grey carburetted 1989 Festiva. 105k km as of June 2006. 140k km as of June 2021.

              Comment

              • #8
                GenevaDirt: I read here where one guy made his own spacer so thought I'd try (my photos in the "Front wheel photos" thread in this forum). Kia dealerships here want $10 each special order which makes it impractical to try until you find the right one. They don't sell the set. I do have a bicycle headset press which could be used to find the right one. I suppose I could pull the wheel apart one more time and test my hand crafted spacer. This is one of those cases where the old spacer does not work with the replacement bearing set (wheel binds), and I tried two bearing sets, National and SKF. So we'll see how it goes. I've actually done a lot of bearing work on bicycles and this spacer "feels" good to me, which I admit may not be worth much.
                Last edited by WmWatt; 06-12-2011, 08:58 AM.
                Original owner of silver grey carburetted 1989 Festiva. 105k km as of June 2006. 140k km as of June 2021.

                Comment

                • #9
                  The wheels are finished and ready to go on the car. The car is jacked up and ready for investigation prior to the big day Thanks for all the help. Today I also took the brake pads and calipers to the auto parts store on my bicycle for additional advice. It's nice to have a backup vehicle.
                  Original owner of silver grey carburetted 1989 Festiva. 105k km as of June 2006. 140k km as of June 2021.

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                  • #10
                    The two copper washers you talk of are probably for either side of the banjo bolt attachment. One goes on each side of the "banjo."

                    As for your home made spacer, good luck! You'll need it.

                    Karl
                    '93GL "Prettystiva" ticking B3 and 5 speed, backup DD; full swaps in spring!
                    '91L "AquaMutt" my '91L; B6 swap/5 speed & Aspire brakes, DD/work car
                    '92L "Twinstiva" 5sp, salvage titled, waiting for repairs...
                    '93GL "Luxstiva," '94 B6 engine & ATX; needs overhauled
                    '89L "Muttstiva," now a storage bin, future trailer project

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                    • #11
                      I asked the Kia dealership how much it would cost to have them install the bearings on the wheel, with a new spacer. They'd only do it if I drove the car in with the wheel on it and left it with them for the complete job. That left me on my own. My fallback position if the bearings don't last is to rebuild the wheel I take off the car and hope the spacer on that one still works. All that will cost is new bearings and my time. With two wheel rebuilds under my belt it shouldn't take long. I'm still ahead.
                      Last edited by WmWatt; 06-12-2011, 06:22 PM.
                      Original owner of silver grey carburetted 1989 Festiva. 105k km as of June 2006. 140k km as of June 2021.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        For the knuckle with the unknown-spacer issue, I'd say just toss that knuckle and get another one from the JY, since it'll come with the proper spacer in it. Better yet, get Aspire knuckles in preparation for a brake swap....
                        90 Festy (Larry)--B6M (Matt D. modified B6 head), header, 5-speed, Capri XR2 front brakes, many other little mods
                        09 Kia Rondo--a Festy on steroids!

                        You can avoid reality, but you can't avoid the consequences of avoiding reality--Ayn Rand

                        Disaster preparedness

                        Tragedy and Hope.....Infowars.com.....The Drudge Report.....Founding Fathers.info

                        Think for yourself.....question all authority.....re-evaluate everything you think you know. Red-pill yourself!

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                        • #13
                          Tom: Junkyard Festivas are hard to find here. I'll use the wheel off the car as a last resort. I paid $50 each for the ones I have and am determined to get value for money.

                          I know this thread wasn't about the bearing spacer but ... Before putting the rebuilt wheel on the car I clamped it down one more time, grabbed the steering knuckle, and darned if it doesn't have some play in it on the hub. The home made shim is too thick. I'd like to file it down a bit it and test in the recommended way but the parts store doesn't have an inch-pound torque wrench on loan, and all I have is a foot-pound torque wrench. So it's going to be trial-and-error by feel, comparing to the good rebuilt wheel. Tomorrow. Today I'm taking a mental health day and putting the last of the photos on Photobucket.
                          Last edited by WmWatt; 06-13-2011, 10:27 AM.
                          Original owner of silver grey carburetted 1989 Festiva. 105k km as of June 2006. 140k km as of June 2021.

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                          • #14
                            GenevaDirt and Safety Guy were right about the home made shim. Without the shim the steering knuckle would not turn on the hub when torqued to spec on an axle on my workbench. By adding the shim I got it to turn. So I put the assmbly on the car with the shim in it. After installing new bearings, rotors, calipers and pads, and putting it all on the car I let the car down for a test drive today. Just drove it up and down the driveway a few times first and the wheel with the shim did not sound right. Jacked it back up and the steering knuckle is very, very loose on the hub. Now I have to take it all apart, remove the homemade shim, and try again. I suppose the weight of the car seats the bearings and loosens them up from what they were on the workbench. Big waste of time. Hopefully no harm done.
                            Last edited by WmWatt; 06-19-2011, 02:40 PM.
                            Original owner of silver grey carburetted 1989 Festiva. 105k km as of June 2006. 140k km as of June 2021.

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                            • #15
                              Probably a dumb question, and slightly irrelevant. I just replaced my brake pads and have no idea what pad shims are. I just slid the old pads out and the new pads in. What do the shims look like?
                              BP, Aspire brakes, stock trans.

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