Festiva Pings Bad Once Warmed up?

[Grouper]

Hey everyone! Thanks for such a good site!

I hope Im posting this is the right section!
I did a bit of searching but couldnt find anything that made sense to me.

I just bought a 1990 Festiva, fuel injected 5 speed. These are fun little cars!
The problum im having is with pre detination. I replaced the plugs with the NGK equivalent to the manufacturers plugs, gapped them to .044 like the manufacturer told me, Replaced the cap rotor wires and air filter.
The car still pings once its warmed up. I CAN NOT make it ping while the motor is cold. Once in a while my cooling van will kick on if im sitting idling, and it WILL kick off. So i assume my operating tempature is not the issue. It seams to run a bit over half and close or three quarters on the factory temp guage.
Has anyone had, and diagnosed a simular pinging issue?
Thanks guys.
O yea, Im running regular pump gas. These little cars dont require mid or high grade fuel do they?
Thanks for all the help and info everyone!

[kellen302]

I run mid grade, and it killed the knock I was getting, I figure it's just because they're old engines, I read an article in HOT ROD awhile ago talking about how as engines age they require different fuel octanes.

[georgeb]

Timing might be too far advanced. Rotate dist body in direction of travel (forward/left) to retard. Also, check coolant temp w/ thermometer. Be sure level is well below full otherwise will spill out once warm.

[econoaddict]

I have right at 200k on my B3 and run regular grade fuel with no knocking or pinging.
Set timing where it belongs and it shouldn't be an issue as long as the car isn't running hot.

[TominMO]

Welcome to the site!

FYI Grouper, You can't just rotate the disty to adjust timing. Get a Haynes manual for Festivas at an auto parts store, and follow the procedure shown in there.

[FestYboy]

actually, Tom, you can... what your doing is removing (or gaining) total advance, not Idle advance when adjusting the dizzy without grounding the ECM. i've done it to both Pepe and the 93 Sport to compensate for local fuel quality.

[Zanzer]

^^ Same here. I carry a 12mm wrench in the car and leave the bottom distributor bolt loose. If she starts to ping I pull over and back the timing off a bit.

[TominMO]

actually, Tom, you can... what your doing is removing (or gaining) total advance, not Idle advance when adjusting the dizzy without grounding the ECM. i've done it to both Pepe and the 93 Sport to compensate for local fuel quality.

Didn't kow there was a difference in "total" advance vs. idle advance. So grounding the ECM (via the STI terminal) to rotate the disty is for affecting advance ONLY at idle?

[georgeb]

If it's got a slot, it can be adjusted.

[Grouper]

Welcome to the site!

FYI Grouper, You can't just rotate the disty to adjust timing. Get a Haynes manual for Festivas at an auto parts store, and follow the procedure shown in there.

Hey everyone! Thanks for all the replys.
I believe the car is either to far advanced or running a bit hot.
I bought this car to save coin, and i will buy a manual if i have to. But I figurd id wait untill the clutch went if i could help it!
As far as setting the timing, Do I just confirm im at 750rpm, and ground out the STI plug, then set to 10 degreese to start?
If thats the case then I have one question?! Should be timing mark(on the pully) be at or near the timing mark/guage on the timing cover? Or should it be lined up with the little "pin" that sticks out by the pully on the top side of the pully? When I checked the timing yesterday befor I learned about the STI plug, I couldnt find my timing mark with my light untill I looked way up by that little pin. without grounding the STI my timing mark was a few inches up past the regular timing marks/guage on the timing cover.
Im going to head out right now to check it again after grounding the plug.

And if im running to hot....well, what should these little things be running at?
Thanks!

[georgeb]

I would ignore the book for now and just back off on the timing a smidgen to see if it fixes the ping issue. The op temp would depend on the thermostat; some are as high as 195 degrees. But it could be faulty or the rad could be clogged causing slight overheating. Beyond halfway is hotter than any of my 3 run. I would check it w/ a long-stemmed thermometer at the cap outlet.

[FestYboy]

Didn't kow there was a difference in "total" advance vs. idle advance. So grounding the ECM (via the STI terminal) to rotate the disty is for affecting advance ONLY at idle?

yeah, the computer is set to run X* of timing at idle with the understanding that the engine has been timed properly physically. after that the dizzy has a total allowable timing setting (i.e. 36* advance at 3400 rpm total) and the ECU retards the timing as needed from the programed timing curves.

[WmWatt]

the computer takes over after the O2 sensor warms up which may be why the ping starts then. the ignition control module is also invovled, being used by the computer when the O2 sensor is warm. the ignition control module can be affected by heat and should be bedded in di-electric heat transfer paste. as mentioned, the computer "learns" where to make adjustments from the factory settings and stores the numbers in its volatile memory. if the battery is disconnected it loses its memory and takes about 20 miles of driving to "re-learn" them.

[Grouper]

Well Guys, I know its been a while, But I wanted to let you know I retarded the timing enough so the car wouldnt ping under load, And it was all good for a few weeks, maby a month, But all of a sudden its pinging again! I checked the dizzy and it hasnt moved. i tightend both bolts snug, and i havnet switched gas stations. And the strage thing about it is, its slightly inconsistant. most times it will ping. then im driving down the road, and i throw it in 5th to lug it, to show my friend the pinping.... and i cant make it ping. I have also lost HUGE power and i have a large increase in fuel consumption. This leads me to believe I have other issues assides from timing causeing this pinging, and i have retarded the timing way farther than it should be, trying to fix my pinging which i now believe is caused by something else.
Can anybody give any advice on what to check next. I strongly do not think the car is running to warm.
Im running reg grade pump gas, and she doesnt puff blue, but her oil definitly seems to dissapear if thats a clue.....
Thanks guys!

[FestYboy]

bring you engine up to temp, then get a DVOM and unplug your o2 sensor. attach the pos side to the o2 plug and the neg to ground and observe the voltage. it should swing while the engine is running (between 0.100 and 0.900 volts) if it doesn't swing back and forth within that range, replace the o2 sensor (with a DENSO sensor only).

another thing to check for is vaccum leaks around the intake. they may only present themselves when the engine is warm.