'88 Ignition ON/START issue

[invader_star]

So, my white 1988 Festiva is giving me some bizarre electrical troubles. I recently dropped in a motor from my other blue '88, and when I turn the key to START, a handful of things have happened:

1. It shorts, and I lose all power to the system. I have to disconnect the main fuse/negative battery terminal to restore power.
1.5. It shorts, and I lose all power to the system. Disconnecting the fuses/battery does nothing. Leaving the battery out for awhile usually fixes this one..

2. It shorts, I lose power to ACC and ON, but the cooling fan spins when in ON. Leaving the battery out of the car for awhile will usually fixes this one as well..

3. It shorts, power is lost to the ON ignition setting, but power remains to the ACC; door buzzer still functions.

4. It shorts momentarily, but power remains to the ON setting of the ignition.

Both the chassis and engine were in working order before the swap. The only notable differences are transmission.. 4spd vs a 5. The starter is good, the fuses all show to be in working order, the battery connectors and terminals are solid, the battery is solid, all of the electrical connectors in the engine bay have been inspected and appear to be fine.. I don't know where to look or what to do. The only glaring issue I've discovered is that this tiny ignition box had a pair of broken contacts.

These were repaired, but the issues remain. The weirdest thing is that randomly the car tried to turn over. We had spark and everything, but shortly after it went back to shorting out. I thought that the fan relay might be out of whack, but upon replacement the issues pressed on. However, I did not discover the broken contacts until after trying both relays in the system.

I'd really like to get Steve running again :\ Any help or guidance will be greatly appreciated. Ask me any questions at all if I missed anything..

[Pu241]

Where are you located?

[georgeb]

I take it is hasn't been right since the engine swap? A "short" is somewhat major and usually results in a blown fuse or burnt wiring. There are no fuses in the starting circuit so a short would blow the main fusible link (check those connections). You probably have an intermittent open circuit (disconnect). My '89 wiring manual shows only a wire from the START pos on the ign sw to the clutch interlock sw then to the smaller wire on the starter. Hook a voltmeter across the battery terminals while someone turns the key to START. If there is a major voltage drop there is a short in the starter or the wiring. If no drop or momentary small drop, there is a bad connection requiring the usual drill of checking, cleaning, etc.

[Flyin4stroke]

Check your grounds. Usually these problems come up from current not traveling the right direction.

[WmWatt]

Spray WD-40 into the ignition switch keyhole. Fixes some problems. If it does no good it will do no harm.

[walth]

I would have said grounds. I hate those kind of electrical problems...I tried to deal with them in my yellow car.

as far as those two little wires under the column...I've had cars run with them tied together, apart, etc and idk even what they are. They shouldn't be an issue. in my DD they're together and have e-tape on them. I would focus on things in the engine bay as you apparently didn't mess with too much inside the car.

did you happen to not reuse your old harness, etc?

[georgeb]

What is that thing in the pic?

[walth]

it's the bottom of the ignition. These are the only two wires that are not "removeable" from the ignition if you ever have to take one off. They always break...I never tried to repair one. but pretty cool you guys did.

[invader_star]

Yes, both the vehicle and the engine were in working order before the swap. I had bench tested my starter so I knew that was functional, so from there started messing around after reading the first few replies. When I turned the key to START there was a significant drop in the voltage. I swapped the battery with the one from my working model, turned it to START with the voltmeter on and it cranked, surprisingly. I actually got it started and running! But upon turning it off it shorts out again lol.

as far as those two little wires under the column...I've had cars run with them tied together, apart, etc and idk even what they are. They shouldn't be an issue. in my DD they're together and have e-tape on them.

Intradasting... at least I'm going above and beyond here!


What was the issue with your yellow car walth?
The wiring harness is the same one that's always been in it.. I'm about to go out and test my grounds.. are there any specific groupings that are problem-prone? Or should I just start unwrapping split-loom and give everything a thorough inspection with an ohmmeter?

[walth]

ooh, it was funky. I'll see if Jay ever figured it out. I think there was water messing with the wiring? idk

symptoms:
1. never started, cranked, clicked, buzzed, or anything on any ignition setting (before/after changing fuses too!)
2. nothing would come on without using a charger (low battery I'm sure)
3. once you disconnected the charger the brake lights would stay on... igniton on/off/acc whatever. didn't matter. they wouldn't shut off unless you unplugged a battery wire.
4. Everything in the car seemed to come on like it should, dash, headlights, etc

5. I think you're much better off and closer to finding your stuff than I was...

I would check around for some grounds. I think there's a couple on the passenger side (one near the strut tower and possibly one near the right headlight?) and I'm sure there's plenty more. Just go through the stuff you had to take apart. I wouldn't start cutting out e-tape cuz you didn't mess with that stuff. And check all those relays and whatnot up by the left headlight and coolant reserve. I know you said you did...and you def seem to know what you're doing from your pics I'm still learning

if you need anything from the EVM I can copy stuff for you unless you have one?

[invader_star]

Wow... that sounds like cancer compared to my headache.. hahah. So your issue was never fully diagnosed? Bummer I like the yellow ones. There's one that appears to be abandoned not too far from me that I really want to snag.. the body is in nicer shape than both of my Festys. Tabs on the car say 2004!

Alright.. I'll keep moving forward with the grounds.. the starter wires will be given a lot of attention as well. Thanks for the encouragement! I like to pretend I know what I'm doing from time to time And I actually have the 1988 electrical book, but thanks!

[walth]

my yellow one was red and painted like a school bus yellow but glossy. interesting but cool. I wish it had been original yellow. sold the car to Jay and I think he sold it the same day, lol. I was def satisfied with the deal as I didn't want anything to do with that mess!

that 88 should be close enough for you. I wish I knew more and could contribute more. I'll learn that stuff someday

[invader_star]

That sounds like a neat car, heh. Are there any photos floating around here?

Your contributions were spot on man, along with everyone else's suggestion of a grounding issue! STEVE LIVESSS!!! I took apart the fuse panel box to find this:

Got some liquid wrench and a wire brush, cleaned the ground bracket as well as the 3 leads that go into the box, and put everything back together. I also cleaned and re-seated the negative terminal wire. There was quite a bit of oil covering the engine mount... which I think was mostly the issue but I turned the ignition to the ON position, and voila! I'm really glad this was something as simple as it was, despite how long it took to find, lol. Gotta remember those basics!

Thanks for your help, guys

[walth]

WOW

I'll keep that in mind on that terminal. that's awful. glad you found that. Are you using the links or do you have the boxy red and green fuses?

[invader_star]

Pretty good right? hahah. I'm using 2 of the boxy fuses, and one fusable link since it was still in working order. Mad chillin together, no technological bias in this car