Trouble in B6 land?

[drddan]

Hey all. Some of you may have read about me buying a used B6.
Here is the thread:
http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=42416

Well, I finally got it up on an engine stand today, and started to check things out a little better. When picking it up at the yard, it was right at closing time, and I didnt get to check it like I wanted to. I had noticed the engine didnt want to turn readily, by grabbing the flywheel. Figured it mught be a little stuck. Well, after getting it on the stand, I put a 1/2 inch breaker bar on the front crank pulley nut to try and turn it. No luck.
I turned it first CW. (tightening it) The crank bolt turned a little but not the engine! Turning it CCW just loosened the bolt.
Okay, how bad is this? I mean, I know it could be, not so bad - or very bad, but what are the chances of it being stuck, and not have damage internally?

I tilted the engine to drain any oil the yard may have missed, and it came out thick and black. Some globs of black goop came out too. Didnt notice any metal shavings in the oil though. Can I soak the cylinders/rings/bearings with anything to free it up? Should I take it back?
I hadnt ever had to deal with a stuck engine before.

Unless blowing an engine up is considered a stuck engine.

Guess i'll take the pan off, (and why I drained the oil) and see if I can see anything that looks....not right... :p

[TominMO]

I'd squirt some PB Blaster in the spark plug holes to try and free up any stuck (rusted) rings. But maybe there's something better.

Sounds like a project motor. Maybe have the cylinders honed, do a re-ring kit, any needed head work, and you have a nice reliable motor.

But in the end it depends on how much $$/time you want to spend. If the Ford's running good, at least you have a parts chaser; but personally I hate being down to just one car.

Did they tell you it had a warranty, like 30 days or something?

[Nerd Racing]

I have heard of people soaking the engine in ATF and Acetone (50/50) down the bores and coat the pistons and rods. you will have to remove the head to get it all out though I am pretty sure.

[TominMO]

Other thoughts:
Don't pull the pan yet, it might not be necessary. Just unstick the rings, install it, fill it with oil and Motor Flush/ATF/MMO or whatever and run it for ten minutes or so. Drain the oil, put in fresh (and a good filter!), do a compression or leakdown test. Might be all you need to do. I was thinking about this, because of how nice the head looked in your other thread.

Of course, you might as well do new water pump, timing belt/tensioner and all seals too, while the motor's out. If this motor doesn't work out for you, you can pull these parts for the next B6 you get, except maybe the camshaft and front crankshaft seals. Anyway it never hurts to have a spare motor you can work on when the urge hits.

[drddan]

Other thoughts:
Don't pull the pan yet, it might not be necessary. Just unstick the rings, install it, fill it with oil and Motor Flush/ATF/MMO or whatever and run it for ten minutes or so. Drain the oil, put in fresh, do a compression or leakdown test. Might be all you need to do. I was thinking about this, because of how nice the head looked in your other thread.

Tom, the pan will be pulled, regardless. IF, I can un-stick it, and IF, I can free it up, and it were to look ok, it will be getting all new gaskets/seals anyway.

Dont want no oil leakys after install. :nono:

But all suggestions sound good, and I will be trying a few of them.
Starting it is interesting. Hmmm....maybe try starting it on the engine stand? :p
Thanks to all, and if someone has any other input, it will be welcomed!

Edit: The amount of oil that came out, was very little. Maybe ...1/4 cup??? It had been drained it already.

[Movin]

You could probably free it up and get it running, but when any
little thing happened you would wonder if a ring finally wore to nothing..
Just for peace of mind pull it down , clean it up and assemble a known
good engine! Cheap overhaul, just needs cleaned, honed, new seals
and gaskets, and anything that suits your fancy, throw it in and go!!!

[blkfordsedan]

If it has a warranty, I'd take it back, or at least call them. They might refund some of your money. You can pour ATF in and soak it for a couple weeks. It may brek free without damage. If you tear it apart, I guarantee you see something you don't like and end up rebuilding it. It may be a great rebuilder...and may not need any machine work.

[georgeb]

I wouldn't pull the pan. The rings are what gets locked. Use PB or WD in spark plug holes. Put torque wrench on crank bolt and attempt to turn. Do same on flywheel bolt. It might smoke depending on extent of rust.

[eurotiva]

Dan my bp was locked up when i got it home from the yard. It runs great now.

[zoom zoom]

I wouldn't do anything until you call the junk yard and tell them what's up. You might get some of your money back. Then pull the oil pan and use anything, seafoam, pb, .. and squirt it on the cylinder walls so it gets down to the oil ring, it would have the most oil gunk, (mine were horrible but it would spin and stick occasionally) for obvious reasons.. use a rubber mallet to hit the piston rod cap down until it frees up. Just try to clean out the cleaner as good as you can, don't leave a bunch in there to get mixed in with good oil. Wouldn't hurt to also soak the top of the pistons too. Is say your in for a couple seafoam treatments, but I would make a rebuild the last resort, its not cheap, imo...I have almost 1100 in mine including 300 to buy the engine itself.

[drddan]

Hey! Thanks all! It is still stuck, but top is soaking in 50-50 mix acetone/atf right now.
The thing about rebuilding, is I paid $450 for this 83,000 mile motor. Top is sweet, but it being stuck IS giving me the eb-gb's! I rebuild $100 engines, not $450 engines. At that price I kinda expect it to run!
I've talked to the yard already. It's no problem if I want to bring it back.
I may try to get a partial refund if I keep it, full if I dont.

Gonna give it a shot at freeing it up.

Greg:

How bad was your's stuck, and what concoction/combination did you use to free it?

Zoom:

I like your idea about getting at it from the bottom, also.
Oil pan is coming off, as I plan on new gaskets everywhere, anyway, including the pan.

BTW ....YOU GUYS ROCK!!! :headbang:

[drddan]

Pics of under oil pan to follow. :eeeeeek: (uploading)


Edit: It aint pretty

Rust all over





Bottom of #4 piston - that rust on the wall way down there sticks up almost 1/8 inch



#3 piston




I couldn't go on. :cry_smile:

[Nerd Racing]

wow, I am very surprised they didn't even bother to try and turn the engine over first. Sorry for the bad luck man.

[crazyrog17]

Lesson learned, low mileage junkyard engines don't always mean better junkyard engines...

[drddan]

wow, I am very surprised they didn't even bother to try and turn the engine over first. Sorry for the bad luck man.

I'm not really. Its all about the money. Nobody cares anymore. For $450, they should have checked it.
Thanks, Nerd. Bad luck seems to follow me.

Lesson learned, low mileage junkyard engines don't always mean better junkyard engines...

This true!

Everything depends on how it was treated. Looks like mine set in the rain, and got water in the intake.


Back to the seller with it!