Air conditioning help?

[drddan]

First a short back story. (so ya know what i'm dealing with)

Festy had air when I got it (dealer install?) It was rigged with a toggle switch on the dash for it to work. It ...kinda...worked.

Summer before lest, belt bunt up and blew off. Assumed it was the comp. Turns out it wasnt, the idler had locked up!
Trying to get get it all to work again, got a new idler, new belt, but here comes the issue with the rig that was done to it.

I had removed the wire that went to the toggle switch, and I THINK, went to the compresssor? Dont know how the guy had it rigged, and I know nothing about AC except, what I read in Haynes and searched here

But! .... Here are pics of what i'm dealing with! (pics = good!)

I have this CUT wire coming from passenger side harness, behind headlight, looks like it could go to the compressor????


....and this wire coming from off the compressor (has a crimp style connector on it) maybe where the rig was going to??


wondering if the 2 wires originally went together?


I have tried checking with a multimeter the voltage at the cut wire, that has the red sleeve on it, and no power there, with or without the inside dash ac contol fan, on or off.

The light on the inside ac control does light up when the fan switch is turned on, and the rad cooling fan comes on also.

Thanks in advance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Potta]

That looks like your wire to reconnect. Although I'd suggest tracing the power from the switch to the end of that wire and if you can't get power down it may have a short somewhere in the harness.
Try doing a circuit test on the wire you have there to the one inside the car. If all else fails just run another wire from your switch down the a/c compressor to power it up.

[drddan]

If all else fails just run another wire from your switch down the a/c compressor to power it up.

That almost sounds like "the rig" it had.
The guy said he couldnt get it to work, so he "bypassed it". Dont remember what he bypassed. (the inside ac control?) Assuming he was using power from the fusebox maybe? And why it had a toggle on the dash?
Maybe the toggle was on/off and rigged to the switch?
I'd like to get it back to stock configuration if possible.

BTW, I have another dash ac control unit I can install, also. Its white. (which I like better than the orange I have anyway!)

[bravekozak]

This is where you really need a tone generator. That wire with the red crimp connector doesn't look stock, but I could be wrong. A/C was wired completely differently on carbs and EFI. If it is factory manual install, you should have two A/C relays below the battery. If it's EFI then three relays. They are in black rubber and look like this. A black/white wire with a bullet connector goes to the A/C compressor clutch. Where is the pigtail from your A/C compressor clutch? Good luck.

[drddan]

Dan .... wow, I always wondered what those 3 things were!
I have an 88 carb, but I have those 3 relays on the pass side fender well

I got to looking better and found another cut wire under the top of rad support. I think I have a MESS!

Here is the mess:

Wires from firewall to the relays












Then here is the other cut wire I found under the rad support coming from drivers side of car

[bravekozak]

Those relays are mounted on a dealer install relay bracket, instead of where they should be!
Here is the schematic.

I think ECA pin 3B just tells the ECA that the A/C is on so idle up.
If you don't have a feed back carb, you will need to find another way to idle up like me.

[bravekozak]

You can clearly see the three four-terminal relays in the schematic. Curly, the A/C power relay supplies power to A/C switch relay coil. It is closed whenever the key is placed in the ON position. Larry, the A/C switch relay supplies power to the A/C relay and the compressor clutch and is closed whenever the A/C on/off switch is pushed.Moe, the A/C relay grounds the engine cooling fan motor so that it operates constantly when then the A/C is on. The A/C relay is closed whenever the A/C and the blower are on.

Follow the wire colors. Good luck. You are going to need it.
I'm still trying to remember where I read about my A/C having only two factory relays. Anyone else know? I can't take a picture. My Festiva is thirty miles away.

I was thinking about the ECA a little more. I think it also grounds when it senses wide open throttle, thereby bypassing the A/C clutch and shutting it down until you take your foot of the accelerator pedal. This is another reason to disconnect the ECA when you do a Weber swap.

After you figure out the wiring, make sure you tape up all of those open splices to prevent a short.

[zoom zoom]

I (literally) just got done removing the ac harness from Fiona. It only has 2 relays that were screwed to the firewall.

[bravekozak]

Those should be dealer installed relays. The factory relays were beside the battery inside heavy rubber sleeves. The reason I asked is because there were two molds for the heavy rubber sleeves. I am sure it was for carb only. I presume the reason the cooling fan came on is because only the Auto had a fan in front of the condenser. The manual transmission didn't need that extra cooling that the auto trans needed in the rad. The condenser needs the air to be pulled through continuously.

I presume the A/C could be wired so that the first factory relay isn't needed.

So dr, it looks like you have a Sanden compressor, based on the aluminum bracket I see in your pictures. The factory Nippondenso compressor had a cast iron bracket.
Somebody substituted factory relays and attached them to your dealer A/C relay bracket with zip ties. Why? Maybe because they were fried?

[drddan]

Those should be dealer installed relays. The factory relays were beside the battery inside heavy rubber sleeves. The reason I asked is because there were two molds for the heavy rubber sleeves. I am sure it was for carb only. I presume the reason the cooling fan came on is because only the Auto had a fan in front of the condenser. The manual transmission didn't need that extra cooling that the auto trans needed in the rad. The condenser needs the air to be pulled through continuously.

I presume the A/C could be wired so that the first factory relay isn't needed.

So dr, it looks like you have a Sanden compressor, based on the aluminum bracket I see in your pictures. The factory Nippondenso compressor had a cast iron bracket.
Somebody substituted factory relays and attached them to your dealer A/C relay bracket with zip ties. Why? Maybe because they were fried?

My Haynes states there are 2 relays, by the battery, and prolly why it was confusing me even more than I am already about AC stuff!

Thanks for the schemtic!!!!!!! It will help me locate stuff. It almost makes sense to me...follow the colors!

I have a Q, about that red crimp wire in the pics. Second pic from bottom. Look how that red crimp wire is tied in, does the red crimp wire look rigged in?
To me, it dont look right

[bravekozak]

Even factory install kits never used closed barrel crimp terminals. They are easily pulled off. All factory terminals are open barrel crimps pushed into molded plactic connectors. Large automotive manufacturers take their shorts very seriously.

Whn you do a complete rewiring job, you appreciate the rules for distance of splices from fuses and proper termination rules (how much sticks out, how much plastic sleeve shows, how hard the squeezes are, etc.). You also appreciate wire colors and sizing. It's an art. I am lucky I found one of the top custom wiring shops in Toronto. It is on a dead end street in the west end. He doesn't have to advertize. He is overloaded with high end cars. I enjoy visiting to see what his customers want and to see the Cobras and other fancy toys.

If your goal is to make your A/C work again, I would check every wire against the schematic and write down what needs changing. Get the proper colored striped wire and replace it with proper terminals and connectors. Buy .250 tangless, brass open barrel terminals.

The goal is to rewire to factory specs. Test every relay. Test every wire. If the wire is not terminated properly, then re-terminate.

Good luck with the idle up. You will need to either install an electric solenoid to push the throttle lever a little from behind or pull the throttle cable a little so that the engine doesn't stall when the compressor clutch is engaged at idle.
I don't know if someting like this will screw to a Weber or not.

[drddan]

I think the idle up solenoid will work. I think it is ZOOM, or ZOE, who had one rigged on his car.

[tooldude]

I think the idle up solenoid will work. I think it is ZOOM, or ZOE, who had one rigged on his car.

Do you have the EVTM? The schematic is much easier to follow I think, and has the circuit description.

[Movin]

Do you have the EVTM? The schematic is much easier to follow I think, and has the circuit description.

That is probably only available in the pro versions, ford, mitchel, alldata ect. The circuit is easy though if it is powered by the AC clutch and wired in parallel. I would skip the vacuum type and just use ford type solenoid.

[drddan]

Do you have the EVTM? The schematic is much easier to follow I think, and has the circuit description.

Yes, I have the 1988 Festiva evtm, and that prolly will work for the idle up circuit.

That is probably only available in the pro versions, ford, mitchel, alldata ect. The circuit is easy though if it is powered by the AC clutch and wired in parallel. I would skip the vacuum type and just use ford type solenoid.

The 1988 Ford Festiva EVTM, is from Ford. I also have the "Body, Chassis, and Body Electrical" manual, for the 1988 Festiva.
I wish they were more help on my hermorphidite ac system.