struggling to stay alive, ignition timing off, erratic poor idle

[Jesse]

Yesterday fired up the motor after not running for over a month. Motor ran very rough and plumed white smoke. I smelled gasoline. It drove rough and stalled.

Today problem persisted. Hooked up a timing light and found it was impossible to match up the timing mark on the cover to the crank pulley. Also noticed that the light flashed half as many times on #1 as on cylinders 2 & 4. Cylinder 3 is very erratic. 2 & 4 appear to operate normally. Pulled the wire on 1 and noticed a slight decrease in performance. Replaced #1, and pulled wire on 4 and noticed a significant decrease in performance.

Motor idles best (but still not acceptably) with distributor in most clockwise position.

Grounding the STI connector exacerbates the problem.

Pulled timing belt covers and confirmed cam timing is correct.

Tried 2 separate sets of complete cap/rotor/wires and experienced identical results. Plugs are new.

What's my problem? Time for a new distributor?

[1990new]

Which type of distributor do you have?
The T2T52371B is a Hall effect distributor and the T2T52371 is an optical distributor.
If it is the Optical distirbutor, oil and dirt can sometime play havoc with the light source in the distributor and create weird ignition patterns.

[bravekozak]

http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/showthread.php?45491-Timing-help!&p=548731&viewfull=1#post548731

[Jesse]

Brave, what are you trying to show me? The firing order? I already knew that.

I don know how to check what kind of distributor I have. If the symptoms are pointing it to it I'll replace it.

[bravekozak]

The symptom you are describing sounds like you have two crossed wires.
If that's not it, then swap out the ignition module in your distributor.

[1990new]

Go to Rockauto and look at the pictures of the top of the distributor under the cover and compare with yours. Also the number is stamped on your distributor but is very hard to see. I'm just suggesting a possibility...may not be the problem at all though. A-1 CARDONE Part # 3135402 {#BP0118200A} Reman. A-1 CARDONE Distributor (Electronic) Please verifty I.D. #(s) match T2T52371B; with .475" Diameter Rotor Cam	$146.89	$5.00	$151.89
A-1 CARDONE Part # 3138400 {#BP0118200, BP0118200A, BP0118200B, F0BZ12127A} Reman. A-1 CARDONE Distributor (Electronic) Please verifty I.D. #(s) match T2T52371; with .475" Diameter Rotor Cam	$160.89	$30.00	$190.89

[Jesse]

Go to Rockauto and look at the pictures of the top of the distributor under the cover and compare with yours. Also the number is stamped on your distributor but is very hard to see. I'm just suggesting a possibility...may not be the problem at all though. A-1 CARDONE Part # 3135402 {#BP0118200A} Reman. A-1 CARDONE Distributor (Electronic) Please verifty I.D. #(s) match T2T52371B; with .475" Diameter Rotor Cam	$146.89	$5.00	$151.89
A-1 CARDONE Part # 3138400 {#BP0118200, BP0118200A, BP0118200B, F0BZ12127A} Reman. A-1 CARDONE Distributor (Electronic) Please verifty I.D. #(s) match T2T52371; with .475" Diameter Rotor Cam	$160.89	$30.00	$190.89

I have the optical distributor. Could it be that I got it dirty when I changed the cap and rotor? Can I just wipe it down or do I have to take it out?
Thanks for your help.

UPDATE: I found this article. I think I'm going to take it out and run through the tests. http://www.autocarepro.com/Article/7...utor_test.aspx

[Jesse]

The symptom you are describing sounds like you have two crossed wires.
If that's not it, then swap out the ignition module in your distributor.

Thanks - I didn't even know that was a servicable part. I'm going to try cleaning the distributor first and see where that takes me. I'm trying to pinpoint things I've touched, and the ICM isn't on that list (yet) lol.

[bravekozak]

Do you have a multimeter?

To test optical sensor in the distributor, remove the distributor cap and the distributor, but leave the harness to the sensor connected. Turn the ignition switch on (Do Not Start The Engine). Rotate the distributor shaft slowly by hand and check the voltage between terminal 1 (black) and ground, and then between terminal 2 (orange) and ground. Measure voltage on 12V DC scale; it should fluctuate between 0 and 5 volts DC.

[1chrisapple]

sounds like bad dizzy to me for sure bc even if wired wrong it should still spark normal just not at right time

[1990new]

Optical Distributor Sensor Cleaning.

Do not try to separate the sensor completely, just enough to get a small qtip inside.
You cannot do this without removing the slotted disk.
You may also try using compressed air at a moderate pressure without removing
the disc first if you determine that the optical sensor may be blocked.

http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/1990new/slideshow/Festiva%20Optical%20Distributor


If you distributor looks as clean as this inside, the sensor is probably not blocked by dirt.
This is next to impossible to do with the distributor still attached to the engine.

Do the test that bravekozak suggested first to see if the sensor is working properly.


Or better yet try to get a know good distributor and replace yours to see if indeed
there is a problem with yours.

[Jesse]

Pin 1 fluctuated between 0 and 2.2
Pin 2 stayed fairly constant around 12.2-12.4
Pin 3 fluctuated between 0 and 5.4

I could not remove the disc in the distributor; the screw is stripping. It was clean inside as well.

[1990new]

Another thought:
The engine in my 1990 got to the point where it would not run because the crank snout keyway and key that keeps the timing gear at the correct position had wore away. It had 240,000 on it at the time. 91 was the transition year...early models had the small snout and later models had the large snout.
How many miles on your engine? Is it early or late 91? The pulleys are different on the two engines. There should be pictures somewhere on the forum that show the differences in the pulleys.
Just another possibility...

[Jesse]

http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/showthread.php?30111-WTB-92-93-festiva-crank-pulley&p=344778&viewfull=1#post344778

I have the pulley on the right, which I guess is small snout. I have 170k on it.

Are you referring to the notch cut out at the top of the pulley; is that the keyway? If so the key on the crank is definitely there and the pulley only goes on one way.

Pin 1 fluctuated between 0 and 2.2
Pin 2 stayed fairly constant around 12.2-12.4
Pin 3 fluctuated between 0 and 5.4

I could not remove the disc in the distributor; the screw is stripping. It was clean inside as well.

When I did this test, I could hear the ignition coil sparking/popping very distinctly. Is that normal?

[1990new]

Here is a link to pictures showing what happened to my 1990 crank.
Your timing pulley is on the end of the crankshaft behind the plastic timing belt cover.
I really hope that you find that this is not your problem.
Only practical way to fix is a new crank or a new engine. I chose a new engine.

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/festiva/photos/albums/971578798