Heat problem fix!

[ryanprins13]

I think i finally fixed the heat issues in my festiva! When I first bought my festiva (almost 9 years ago) the heat was great in the winter. Then suddenly one winter it wasn't. I froze my knees that winter pretty bad ( hour each way commute and a week of below -30c), then started driving other cars during the winter after that and just drove the festiva in the summer. Then I did quite a bit to try and fix the heat in the fall and winter 2014, drove it that winter but it was still super cold. Worked on it again this fall 2015 but still no luck . ( replaced heater core twice, whole blower box, water pump, coolant flushs,*radiator, rad cap, thermostat, insulated coolant hoses, blocked entire grille) but none of that made much of a difference, it still got*uncomfortable*below -6c ambient. Tons of heat at zero and above, but sharply dropped off going down to -6c. Then the other day i was driving my civic (which has great heat) to my job so i could work on it after hours and my wife had left one of the back windows down just a crack. (crank windows) I was a bit late so i never got out to roll it up but i noticed that i couldn't get the car warm. Then i realized that i have had the back plastic panels and hatch cover out of my festiva for like 5 or 6 years and the rockers and rear bumper area is rusted right through and the wind just blows inside. It looks like its just open from the holes in my rockers to inside the car and i could see out the rear quarter panels pretty good through the holes. Even with the plastic panels on and holes in the rockers it looks like a ton of air would blow in. *So i made a plan and sprayed a whole bunch of*spray foam*into my rockers to re-inforce the rust from the inside (bad idea btw). i removed my rear washer tank and sprayfoamed the holes in my quarter panels up as well which worked. when that was cured i smeared seam sealer over it all on the outside to protect it and also anywhere i thought needed it to hold the rust*together*and plug the holes that were letting the cold air in. Then when that was cured enough i sprayed rock-guard*over the seam sealer on the outside to harden it up a bit as the seam sealer is quite soft. then i took roxaul house insulation and insulated everything i could in the rear quarters and back hatch. then i re-installed the back plastic panels that have been off for half a decade, put plastic over the rear hatch hole and the cover back on it. Then i bought a quilt and put it on the back floor and up the sides.
I just did this and it hasn't been real cold yet but it is definatly way warmer in the 0 to -15c range. it is also a ton quieter! lol, I can hear my radio now. Before i did this i had to have the heat setting on defrost and floor so my face was kinda ok if i had a touque on and my feet were good but my knees and hands were real cold. If i put it just on defrost it would be like there was a cold breeze blowing through my car. Now i can have it just on defrost and its ok and my knees and hands are good when its on both defrost and feet. i can actually take my touque, gloves and knee blanket off while driving now! lol. But i have to wait until it gets real cold to know if this fixed it for sure. I have a feeling that the first winter my car was suddenly cold was the first winter i had the rear panels off.
This morning was -15 and it was comefortable in the car with no snowpants. I even took my gloves off and probably could have taken my touque off too. So i decided to take the temperature of the air blowing out my windshield vents. Should have done it before i insulated the car, but whatever. Anyone want to compare? I used a digital meat thermometer.*
So when it was -3c outside (26f):
145f fan on 3rd speed
150f fan on 2nd speed
160f 3rd speed on recirculate
When it was -10c outside (14f):
138f 3rd speed
142f 2nd speed
150f 3rd speed recirculated air
158 2nd speed recirculate
115f 3rd speed after idling for 2 min.*
When it was -15c outside (5f):
134f 3rd speed
138f 2nd speed
148f recirculate speed 3
133f 2nd speed cruising through town at a low rpm.*
117f lowest it got at a stoplight speed 2.*
It was about 22c (72f) in the car by the passenger seat area. I think thats decent for it being -15 outside, but i never checked what the cabin ambient temp was the other 2 times, it was definatly warmer inside the car when it was -3 and -10 out. I think this insulating made a huge difference. Nothing different except no insulation or back panels at -15 i used to wear a snowpants and blanket over my knees and be cold all the way to work except for my feet which were sweating... Now its nice.*
All the saltwater sitting in there rusted the inside bad. I already vaccumed a ton of salt out before this pic
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Thats a big hole for wind to come in...
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That hole from the outside
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Pass side rocker panel was pretty bad
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The insulation i put in drivers side
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Passenger side. You cant really see it but also i seamsealed a ton inside the car cos it rusted through
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[ryanprins13]

Heat problem fix!

Part 2:
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The quilt!
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I didnt get any photos of what i did to the hatch, but i made the outside ugly...
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All the biggest holes are sealed!
So if you have heat problems first measure your heat temperature to check if thats what is bad. It was fine for me, i just had so much wind blowing into my car that i thought it was bad and spent a ton of hours working on the cooling system. Plug all your rocker holes and put those trim panels back in!
And this is my grille blocker. Works good. The drivers side has a piece i can fold down if it gets warm out. This is all ahead of the rad an inch or so so if it gets hot and i switch my fan on it still draws air through it and cools it down.
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[clphipps79]

I want to know where you got those tires from!

[TominMO]

Good job! I like that quilt idea too. Might get a cheap army blanket or something to do the same thing. I have my rear seat out but the rear seat plastic is in. The body cavities behind the rear seat plastic are filled with foam rubber pieces for noise reduction, and of course that also will help some with insulation. The headliner also has foam rubber strips between it and the metal roof. The 1990+ headliners are easier to work with to do this. I have removed the plastic in the trunk area tho, to make it easier to get at the rear strut tops & rear lights. I will drape the blanket over where the rear seat was, and the rear parcel shelf.

[ryanprins13]

I want to know where you got those tires from!

Lol, i drove 5 or 6 hours to get those! Second hand, $50 for 5 tires. Couldn't pass it up.

Good job! I like that quilt idea too. Might get a cheap army blanket or something to do the same thing. I have my rear seat out but the rear seat plastic is in. The body cavities behind the rear seat plastic are filled with foam rubber pieces for noise reduction, and of course that also will help some with insulation. The headliner also has foam rubber strips between it and the metal roof. The 1990+ headliners are easier to work with to do this. I have removed the plastic in the trunk area tho, to make it easier to get at the rear strut tops & rear lights. I will drape the blanket over where the rear seat was, and the rear parcel shelf.

Thanks! I think the quilt reduced the road noise a lot too. I got it at one of those discount stores for like $20.
I cant picture what you mean with foam rubber strips above the headliner. What are they?


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[william]

I've ran a queen size blanket in the rear of my festiva for years it helps a lot! I put it in there for hauling stuff and noticed how much road noise it killed so I just left it. I bet the foam helps a lot as well .

[TominMO]

I cant picture what you mean with foam rubber strips above the headliner. What are they?

I got some foam rubber in sheet form, I think at the big-box hardware store, and cut it into strips that fit in between the ribbing on the roof panel.

[WmWatt]

Effective fix but will likely shorten life of car as foam traps moisture and speeds up rust. That's the problem with the factory installed foam in the rear quarter panels where they meet the fender well. Would be better to grind rust down to bare metal and patch and coat before installing insulation. Can even brush on phosphoric acid solution before coating to convert rust to phosphate. Surprized you didn't notice any water coming in driving in wet weather. At least you got an economy car for winter now. Yeah, good snow tires really help too. Don't forget to knock the slush out of the wheel wells when you get home. I do to keep the garage floor clean(er) and it helps reduce rust as well. I keep a long stick or wood just inside the garage door to do it with.

[ryanprins13]

Heat problem fix!

I got some foam rubber in sheet form, I think at the big-box hardware store, and cut it into strips that fit in between the ribbing on the roof panel.

Oh i see. Cool! Did you do that for warmth or noise reduction? And do you think it helped much?

Effective fix but will likely shorten life of car as foam traps moisture and speeds up rust. That's the problem with the factory installed foam in the rear quarter panels where they meet the fender well. Would be better to grind rust down to bare metal and patch and coat before installing insulation. Can even brush on phosphoric acid solution before coating to convert rust to phosphate. Surprized you didn't notice any water coming in driving in wet weather. At least you got an economy car for winter now. Yeah, good snow tires really help too. Don't forget to knock the slush out of the wheel wells when you get home. I do to keep the garage floor clean(er) and it helps reduce rust as well. I keep a long stick or wood just inside the garage door to do it with.

Well i made sure it was dry before spraying the foam in. It was dry to the touch and then i blew compressed air in there for a long time to dry anything left out. The sprayfoam forms a skin on the outside thats supposed to be watertight, it only soaks up moisture if you cut or puncture it. Any water that gets in there now can still drain ahead of the foam as i didnt fill the rockers with it, i just put it where the rust holes were.
I do realize that would be a lot better. I was going to fully restore the body of the car about 5 1/2 years ago when i was still working at an autobody shop but decided it would cost too much. This car is on its last legs bodywise. It was in a bad accident before i bought it and the quarter panels are basically entirely rust with bodyfiller overtop. I think it hit somethin hard in the front then rolled on its side... The body is really beat and ive been hard on the underside. Ive done a lot of off-roading, hit a ton of big rocks, bottomed out a lot. All my floorboards are pushed way up, gas tank has big dents, exhaust is more like 1 in diameter around the gas tank, fake framerails are mostly flat and my fuel and brake lines are pretty mangled.
I did notice water coming in but the story with this car was i bought it from someone who thought it was almost dead, drove it for a long time taking real good care of it, then decided i would just stop maintaining it and drive it till it died. After 3 years of no maintenance, no breakdowns and no signs of death and it being more reliable than my other cars i started fixing it and putting money into it again in spring 2014. But the body is beyond reasonable repair.
I do always kick the slush off my cars when i get home.
The reason i said earlier sprayfoam wasnt a great idea is that it says not to use on gaps bigger than 1 inch. The rockers are obviously way bigger than that and it took forever for it to dry. The middle of it may not be dry even now. I should have stuck other stuff up there to take up space then used foam.
But as far as for other people wanting to do this a much better option is obviously repairing the rust or patching it or preventing the rust in the first place by spraying rock gaurd in those areas and painting to prevent stone chipping and filling the rockers with wax oil, rust preventer or used oil.

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[TominMO]

I put the foam strips in the headliner for noise reduction, along with inside the body cavities behind the rear seat plastic. Anything that fills up a space that can vibrate like a drum is good to do. Of course it would help for warmth too. What would probably be even better is thick felt padding.

I have an old, cheap bulky sleeping bag I put in the car today, in place of the rear seat (which I sold last year). Draped it over the parcel cover too. Definitely helped with noise, and probably with warmth as well; but it wasn't very cold today, just low 30s.

[WmWatt]

Oh, right, not worth the trouble. Mine's clean but not pristine. I used to chip and paint underside every 5 years but spray now and that's effective and less work.

[nitrofarm]

I dont have holes in my Car but I run Corrugated Plastic in front of my Rad. I have it cut so if need be I can block all but 1/4 pf the rad.Or if it suddenly gets warm I can slide it over for more cooling. Heat works great but fuel mileage sucks at -10. The narrow Band & IAT sensor just kill stoichiometric when the Ambient gets below 20 degs. I'm seriously contemplating relocating my IAT sensor to the inside of the car in winter. Its the only thing I think Mazda missed the mark with concerning the Engine controls. The computer always thinks the engine is cold-

[meyek91974]

I have thought of spraying in bed liner or rubber coating after cleaning rust. Then filling void spaces with expandi-foam

[ryanprins13]

So this sprayfoam i did totally rusted the car out really fast. That was a terrible idea. This helped my cars heat a fair bit but it still wasnt good when things actually got cold. I am working on new theories now

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[93FestyEh]

Spray foam always traps moisture and accelerates the rusting in a big way. It's never a good idea unless you plan on crushing or junking your car within the next year.

I thought your car looked bad enough in the initial pics 3 years ago that it should be crushed. I can't imagine how it looks now. I'm sure it's legally unsafe.