Fuel injector firing?

[1990new]

I posted this in my Rosie Project thread but put it here in the Help Form also:
Got the injector seals in the mail today and the rail is back on with no leaks but....no start yet.
Leading up to this point.
Installed the timing belt:
Lined up the 12 and 3 oclock marks on the cam pulley and the lower mark dead on in the sprocket valley and installed the belt.
Turned the engine over a few time and belt line up appears to be good.
Confirmed cylinder 1 is at TDC when the marks line up.
Confirmed that the rotor button is at the number 1 plug wire when cylinder 1 is TDC
With number 1 plug out I confirmed that I get a spark when engine is turned over.
I also know the compression is good on all cylinders.
I also check the resistance on all 4 injectors and they are all between 14.8 to 15.0.

Turned over several time but the engine has not fired once.



I know I'm getting fuel at the rail but how can I check for fuel in the combustion chamber without remove the fuel rail again?

[Studebaker]

see if it will run on quick start

[fastivaca]

Check to see that you got all the seals and spacers on the injectors. I missed one and it contributed to the no start condition. I had spark and fuel at the rail just as you have.

In the photo below the left hand injector has its o-ring but is missing the spacer. The green one on the right has the o-ring and the spacer. I forgot to put those spacers in.



Once I got the spacer on and the injectors back in the car started right up.

[1990new]

see if it will run on quick start

More info please. Do you mean spray starter fluid? I have carburetor cleaner but no spray start fluid.
How do I get it into the air stream enough to get the engine to fire. This is a brand new short block engine
and a rebuilt head.

[1990new]

Check to see that you got all the seals and spacers on the injectors. I missed one and it contributed to the no start condition. I had spark and fuel at the rail just as you have.

In the photo below the left hand injector has its o-ring but is missing the spacer. The green one on the right has the o-ring and the spacer. I forgot to put those spacers in.



Once I got the spacer on and the injectors back in the car started right up.

Yes they all have spacers.
I installed the rail twice today. The first time I somehow destroyed two of the o rings and had two leaking injectors again.
I must have twisted them somehow when I put them in. No leaks after I replaced them though.
Could all the injectors be failing? They are from the rail that I had on the shelf. The ones that were on Rosie looked much worse than any of these. Three of the ones that were on Rosie were purple and one is brown but they all have the same part number.
I haven't check for voltage at the injector wire yet. I'll do that next.

Set the volt meter to 20 VDC and tested # 1 and #4 injector wires.
The highest voltage reads .9 and change.

[william]

I believe the main relay on the over flow tank run the injectors. If you have an extra I would try swapping that and giving it another try.
At least that's how it is with the capri harness. I haven't had a b3 festiva in years so I'm not 100% sure if there the same way.

[fastivaca]

If the injectors have been sitting for a while it would be worth cleaning them. I just Youtubed it and found a number of videos that were helpful.

[1990new]

If the injectors have been sitting for a while it would be worth cleaning them. I just Youtubed it and found a number of videos that were helpful.

I saw some of those and attempted that but never did get it to work.
What is the voltage supposed to be at the injector plug to fire the injector?
I put a leads on the connectors and turned the motor over but the voltage never went over .9 with my volt meter set a 20VDC
Did I do this test correctly?

Maybe I sould put those ugly injectors back on Rosie. They were working good.
I just hate to keep pulling the fuel rail not knowing for sure what the problem is.

[fastivaca]

Can't help you there... never did check voltage.

[Team Lightning]

The ecu breaks the negative wire if I remember correctly. You should have 12 volts on the positive wire, to a ground, all the time with the negative wire pulsing as the motor turns over. I'm thinking 2 injectors fire at a time.

[1990new]

The ecu breaks the negative wire if I remember correctly. You should have 12 volts on the positive wire, to a ground, all the time with the negative wire pulsing as the motor turns over. I'm thinking 2 injectors fire at a time.

With the switch turned on, I get 12 volts or a little more when I contact either terminal in the injector plug to ground. (Tested #1 plug only).
I pulled plugs 1 and 4 and they are not wet and have no gas smell, So it does appear that I'm getting no fuel into the cylinders.

Been doing some reading about how injectors work... it's just a wee bit complicated.

Going to Autozone now to rent a noid light set see if there is a fire signal from the computer.

[FestYboy]

OK you beat me to the punch. I posted all about that in your other thread. Noid light is the preferred method.

[1990new]

OK you beat me to the punch. I posted all about that in your other thread. Noid light is the preferred method.

Got the noid test lights. Plugged the light into the #1 injector wire and turned the engine over several times.
According to the info in the kit, no light or constant light indicates bad signal, intermittent blinking light indicates good signal.
I got intermittent blinking so it looks like the computer is sending pulse signals to that injector, but it is dry in the cylinder.
I'll test # 4 tomorrow and if it's good, I will pull all the injectors out and put the ones that were on Rosie in.
Stay tuned for updates tomorrow.

I'm getting to be an expert at removing and installing the fuel rail.

Thanks everyone for all the tips.

[Greywolf]

You can make a noid light with a 12 volt diode and an extra set of test leads, or plug a 12 volt diode into the injector connector if it's a female connection.

I went through this recently with a Suzu Swift, and the system is similar.

If you have 12V on one of the injector connections - the other wire runs directly to your ECU.
What I found on my Swift, was that I had to re-seat the ECU connector to get it to make contact.

Another possibility is that there is a bad ground to the ECU, or that the relay powering the ECU is bad. Somewhere in all of that there should also be a fuse, or a fusable link. Check them with a meter - don't just look at them and guess.

Before all of this, it's a good idea to check for correct fuel pressure in the fuel rail, and bleed out any air that is in the lines.

AHAH!!! I missed the post above somehow - what you should do is grab a fuel pressure tester and bleed the rail, then test for pressure to the injectors.

ANY time the fuel lines are opened up - you get air in the system.
Since the injectors only open in short bursts, it takes a long time to get the air out by cranking the engine over.
*And I mean a LOOOOOOOONG time...


NOTE: There should be a Schrader type test fitting (like a tire valve) on the rail somewhere, if there isn't - you can bleed air out of the rail by loosening one of the injector connectors (hopefully) and leak out any air bubbles.

If you have to do it the second way, go to the farthest injector from the fuel source.

If you have no fuel pressure gauge, you can listen for the pump to turn on when the key is turned, or when it is on and the air metering door is opened. If it hums - you got pressure.

[1990new]

Regarding injector wire connector. I put one of voltmeter leads on the top of the strut bolt to ground and the other
on one plug wire contact and the on the other. I got 12 volts on the meter from both with the switch on.
I was expecting to get 12v on one and not much of anything on the other.
No chance of air in the system, it sprayed fuel all over when the injector seals were leaking and I've turned it over several time since the last injector rail install.
There is no test fitting on the rail.

I will do more of your suggested testing tomorrow.