Strange Cooling Fan Problem

[radi8u]

Hello Everybody!

Got home from work the other day, shut my car off, and the rad fan kicked on. Turn the key back on and it quit running. Turn the key back off and it started running again, I had to unplug the fan to get it to stop. Let the car cool down, plug the fan back in and it starts running. Fire the car up and the fan works normally, turning on when I started the AC and working when the temp is up. Turn the car off and the fan runs constantly. The relay appears to be working, it is open with the key off and closed when I turn the key on, is that normal? Couldn't get to the JY yesterday to see if I could find a different relay. Anyone ever had this issue? I could wire a switch into the circuit but my car is fairly clean and I'd rather not do that, it would drive me nuts! Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated!!!

[bravekozak]

Are your dash lights out?
The cooling fan relay is normally closed.
When you start the car the cooling fan relay energizes through the METER fuse.
If the meter fuse is fried, the cooling fan will come on immediately at startup.
Thread 52056.

[radi8u]

Thanks, Brave! My fan works as it should except for running all the time when the key is off. The car has to come up to temp before it kicks on, or I have to turn on the AC. I'll check that METER fuse though. :thumbs_up:

[FestYboy]

Sounds like a short to power between the relay and load.

[radi8u]

Thanks for the helpful suggestions, Brave and FestY. I noticed that my wipers and heater blower would work when the key was off as well. Took all of 10 minutes to find and correct the problem once I started looking things over. A blob of solder on the back of the ignition switch had sagged down and shorted to the terminal below it. Pried it apart and all is well now. Thanks again!!!

[FestYboy]

That means the switch is getting hot... Or at least hot enough to melt solder. Not typically a good thing.

[radi8u]

Yes, that's what I was thinking as well. I wonder if the extra load of running the AC had anything to do with it. I know nothing about electricity and wiring.

[WmWatt]

I think that's what fuses are for. You might check that someone didn't substitute a higher amp fuse somewhere. Could solder melt before a fuse? Or it could have been a sloppy soldering job at the factory.

[1990new]

This is a very helpful thread. Helped someone with the exact same problem today...broken plastic in switch caused melting solder on the switch resulting in blown meter fuse. Solution was to replace the ignition with a good used one and then replace the meter fuse.

[ryanprins13]

Just to add to this do NOT use cheap fuses. I have had cheap fuses where so much current ran through the wires that the insulation all melted off and all the plastic on the fuse melted in the fusebox but the 10amp fuse did not blow.

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[Greywolf]

Beware of Chinese fuses, I read an article on them a year ago where some that came from Harbor Freight were tested and it was found that they didn't blow even when more than ten times their rated amperage was pulled on them!

I ran into the same thing on another car of mine. It was causing I forget what, but was annoying...

That having been said - the only thing unique about the ignition switches in Festies is where and how they are mounted. They are in the housing that they are because of the steering lock tab in the column. Any similar column that has a matching mount system and number of splines/diameter of shaft can be transplanted, and the ignition switch itself doesn't even actually have to be on the column.

I have looked at a number of aftermarket switches that can be dash mounted or even set into the shift linkage hump (what would be called a transmission or driveshaft hump in a RWD car). This means you can use an ignition switch with a higher rating, or even with a different key type or options.

The buzz on Festiva ignition switches is that you can't get them new - but who cares? Anything is better than a used one that is bound to be half worn out to begin with, think outside of the box - don't be limited by stock options when upgrades are the spice of life!



Additional: It isn't only high current that causes heat. Dirty connections act like resistors, and a resistor is a device that limits current flow by giving off heat (typically). If you have resistance in a connection (OR SWITCH CONTACT!!!) it can cause heat, even if the normal amount of current or LESS is being drawn across it. The more resistance, the more heat, the more heat, the more carbon build up - the more carbon, the more resistance, until eventually something melts.

The radar transmitters I used to work on in the navy had some HUGE power supplies, and when a run away high resistance feedback condition like that happened (I've seen a few) it would burn a hole in metal casings as big around as a half dollar sometimes and completely consume the electrical connector posts that were mounted there...

Here's some math for you:
12 volts at 60 amps, is the same amount of power as 120 volts at 6 amps.

Volts time amps is how we figure power in watts, and my soldering iron has a high setting of 40 watts.
(I was going to reference this to my wire feed welder, but it's lowest setting is 10 amps)

~Put bluntly, 12 volts times 60 amps (which is about what a Festiva alternator delivers, let alone the CCA of the battery) comes to 720 watts.
And yeah, that's enough to melt solder :violent3:

[jawja jim]

Fourgreen had them new at my last order, last year. The only difference being the two wires separately located on the raised center portion. The EVTM shows them to be a "brake lamp test function" which, presumably, lights the lamp when the key in in the start position. Every thing else in the same and I've been running one on my 89L for quite a while and it works fine. If you want to check the lamp, just raise the e-brake handle any amount.