Oil Leaks........arrrghh!

[Joe]

Guys,
My 1991 festiva is leaking oil like a sieve. The whole engine is soaked from top to bottom, engine bay soaked, oil leaking onto the hot exhaust STINKS, loosing about a liter every 4 days.


When I bought it 4 years ago, it leaked oil, so I replaced the oil pan gasket and valve cover gasket. That mostly helped, but there was still a leak somewhere at the front as the alt and crank pulleys and belt were still flinging oil up on the hood underside. Just having taken it apart, I wasn't about to do it all over again for the crank seal.

Fast forward 4 years to the top of my post.......

I have a new valve cover gasket and O rings, a new oil pan gasket, new front main crank seal, new camshaft seal. I plan on replacing all of them and using sealant in the corners of the oil pan to block gasket. [ this is not my first engine oil pan gasket change ].

I know that there is still the oil pump housing gasket, and the rear main seal. Are there any other places for this engine to leak oil? Distributor housing??

I don't think that a leaking rear main seal is going to bathe the whole engine in oil?? So I don't think that is it. I'll leave it alone for the time being as it is alotta work to change. Mine is an automatic trans BTW.

I'm not 100 percent sure the front crank seal needs doing, as the timing belt itself is dry, but there is oil all over on the inside of the timing cover / engine front. How it got there? maybe leaked in from the valve cover? The timing cover dust seal is toast and the water pump pulley has worn through the bulging timing cover......more points of possible oil entry.

Also........ the black plastic air intake plumbing and all of its joining tubes are loaded with engine oil? Right to the air box at one end and to the throttle body at the other end. I've noticed this before and cleaned it out twice in the past. The PCV is working fine........I clean it out and the little check ball rattles when I shake it........... so WHY is this engine oil getting in there?

Thanks for your thoughts!

I like my festy but it IS pissing me off.

[errjam]

Ring blow by ? Would a catch can be Appropiate ??

[Joe]

I've been reading about "blow by" and "catch cans".

What exactly is a catch can? Where does it go on the festy? Something I can fab up? anyone got pics?

[blake4591]

I had B6D that had the same thing going on, oil everywhere. I did the valve cover, oil pan, front main, and oil pump seals. It seems to be keeping the oil in the engine now. From my experience the valve cover gaskets on the B series aren't the greatest. Every B series I have encounter that didn't have a recently replaced valve cover gasket had a leaking valve cover gasket.

[william]

Cam shaft seal and disty oring .
Oil in the intake is from blow by. I maybe best to do a compression test to see if it's worth putting gaskets on.

[TominMO]

Where the oil goes when seals leak:

--disty o-ring: oil on top of the tranny
--valve cover gasket: down the front and rear of the motor
--camshaft seal: this is the one that gets oil all down the pass. side of the motor, since it's at the top, and flings it around as it contacts the rotating pieces
--crankshaft seal: in my experience, it just dribbles down under the motor and gets the underside of the car oily; but depending on exactly where the leak is, it might do some flinging too
--rear main seal: same as crankshaft seal, but it comes out at the bottom of the tranny

I only do front and rear crankshaft seals when I have to do something else major, like replace the clutch. I just live with that minor leakage. Definitely keep up on the camshaft, disty and valve cover seals. The first two don't get replaced all that often, but the valve cover one fairly often.

[Joe]

Cam shaft seal and disty oring .
Oil in the intake is from blow by. I maybe best to do a compression test to see if it's worth putting gaskets on.

I need this festy to last till the next fall. I bought it to drive while I'm building my truck. So, worth it or not, I gotta get the oil leaks stemmed........

[Joe]

Where the oil goes when seals leak:

--disty o-ring: oil on top of the tranny
--valve cover gasket: down the front and rear of the motor
--camshaft seal: this is the one that gets oil all down the pass. side of the motor, since it's at the top, and flings it around as it contacts the rotating pieces
--crankshaft seal: in my experience, it just dribbles down under the motor and gets the underside of the car oily; but depending on exactly where the leak is, it might do some flinging too
--rear main seal: same as crankshaft seal, but it comes out at the bottom of the tranny

I only do front and rear crankshaft seals when I have to do something else major, like replace the clutch. I just live with that minor leakage. Definitely keep up on the camshaft, disty and valve cover seals. The first two don't get replaced all that often, but the valve cover one fairly often.

Great info thanks.
I have oil on top of the trans.....so the distributor O ring......how do i replace that? just pull the disty and it will be apparent?

Just getting the crank bolt off was a PITA. The engine is so close to the frame and the crank bolt is at the same level as the frame. I had to loosen the motor mount and jack the engine up to create enough room to remove the crank bolt. How do you go about replacing the front crank seal with so little room to work in? I don't want to pull the whole oil pump off, nor do I want to pull the engine out just for access.

Blow by.
I'm sure that blow-by is the other half of this problem. When I wipe the oil off the tops of the air box, oil filter or some other *easy to assess* area, after the very next drive, there is fine, even mist of oil all over everything again, telling me that is is coming out of ?? these leaking gaskets under pressure in the form of fine droplets or mist.

I need to jury rig a catch can of sorts or modify the crankcase venting somehow, so this blow by doesn't blow my new seals and gaskets again.

I need to know more about where this motor is vented so I can reroute the blow-by oil. Is it JUST the pvc valve in the valve cover? Is the actual crankcase vented too? Is it that the pvc valve can't keep up with the amount of blow-by pressure?


Thanks for your thoughts.


Oh yeah, if I could find another festy engine to swap in, I would, but they are rare to see / find now.

[william]

Just pcv for the vent. And vc to intake track.
For the front seal unbolt the top engine mount and lower the engine. I drill a tiny hole on both sides of the seal so I can put in a couple of small screws be careful not to scratch the bore that the seal slides into and use my vice grip slide hammer . A seal tool will also work but on really stuck ones I go with the slide hammer.
To seat the seal a seal driver to large socket works well. Just put it in flush with the engine. For the disty just mark the disty location with a paint pin or something so you get your timing back where it was it only goes in the camshaft one way so you can't get it 180 out. There's no gear just a t that fits into a slot on the cam.
The oring some times is a pain to get off it will be hard as a rock break it off there with a flat screw driver.

[ryanprins13]

I just replaced all the gaskets in my festiva and installed 2 catch cans. I hope this weekend i have some time to send you photos and more info. But the dist o-ring leaked a lot on mine and is easy to fix, mine broke off when i touched it. My main culprit was the front crank seal. It had actually come most of the way out, as soon as i touched it with a pick it fell out. It wasnt sealing anything. And i can confirm that the timing belt will throw oil! Make sure you dont scratch the steel when you remove these gaskets. My valve cover gasket had poured oil everywhere and now its fine, i have no leaks. I know your loosing a lot of engine oil but have you checked your transmission fluid? If the output shafts leak then it throws oil everywhere. The rear main seal and distributor seal bolth coat your clutch with oil when they leak. As does a leak on the input shaft seal of the transmission. I had thought my clutch was slipping because it was worn, but with 200,000km on it it wasnt worn at all, just slipping because of all the oil in there. Needed a new flywheel because mine was many colours, mostly blue and purple.
Check your 2 pcv hoses for leaks. The short one from intake hose to valve cover gets hard and doesnt seal. Spray intake cleaner into your pcv valve every time you gas up at least, more often if you need to. They get plugged up from the oil and dont work proper. Does your oil pressure sending unit maybe leak?
Before and After you replace seals wash the engine real well. The degreaser i bought didnt work well, but safety glasses and brake cleaner thatsprays hard was amazing. Clean all the oil you can off just before you do the work and when your done. Then check it very frequently so you can identify any leaks before the whole engine is a mess. I had a leaky engine and trans for about 5 years, its so nice now.

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[Joe]

Just pcv for the vent. And vc to intake track.
For the front seal unbolt the top engine mount and lower the engine. I drill a tiny hole on both sides of the seal so I can put in a couple of small screws be careful not to scratch the bore that the seal slides into and use my vice grip slide hammer . A seal tool will also work but on really stuck ones I go with the slide hammer.
To seat the seal a seal driver to large socket works well. Just put it in flush with the engine. For the disty just mark the disty location with a paint pin or something so you get your timing back where it was it only goes in the camshaft one way so you can't get it 180 out. There's no gear just a t that fits into a slot on the cam.
The oring some times is a pain to get off it will be hard as a rock break it off there with a flat screw driver.

Thanks for the info.
I'll drop the engine down in order to access the front crank seal as suggested. I like the self tapping screw idea and the use of a slide puller........i have both.
I'll change the disty O ring too, thanks for the help.

[Joe]

I just replaced all the gaskets in my festiva and installed 2 catch cans. I hope this weekend i have some time to send you photos and more info. But the dist o-ring leaked a lot on mine and is easy to fix, mine broke off when i touched it. My main culprit was the front crank seal. It had actually come most of the way out, as soon as i touched it with a pick it fell out. It wasnt sealing anything. And i can confirm that the timing belt will throw oil! Make sure you dont scratch the steel when you remove these gaskets. My valve cover gasket had poured oil everywhere and now its fine, i have no leaks. I know your loosing a lot of engine oil but have you checked your transmission fluid? If the output shafts leak then it throws oil everywhere. The rear main seal and distributor seal bolth coat your clutch with oil when they leak. As does a leak on the input shaft seal of the transmission. I had thought my clutch was slipping because it was worn, but with 200,000km on it it wasnt worn at all, just slipping because of all the oil in there. Needed a new flywheel because mine was many colours, mostly blue and purple.
Check your 2 pcv hoses for leaks. The short one from intake hose to valve cover gets hard and doesnt seal. Spray intake cleaner into your pcv valve every time you gas up at least, more often if you need to. They get plugged up from the oil and dont work proper. Does your oil pressure sending unit maybe leak?
Before and After you replace seals wash the engine real well. The degreaser i bought didnt work well, but safety glasses and brake cleaner thatsprays hard was amazing. Clean all the oil you can off just before you do the work and when your done. Then check it very frequently so you can identify any leaks before the whole engine is a mess. I had a leaky engine and trans for about 5 years, its so nice now.

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Mine is an auto........no trans fluid leaks that I can see. IF the rear main seal is leaking [ hopefully no too bad ] I'll live with it for now. Doing this work in the nov rains on my back in the dirt......no fun! The front crank seal doesn't look like it's leaking, but I will replace it anyway since it's all apart now.

Where did you put your oil catch cans? Why two of them?
I've been reading your posts on the catch cans. I will make one or two if needed and install where they need to go. Do you have pics?
FYI, mine is a 1991, fuel injected, auto trans.

Time to go do the oil pan gasket.......

[ryanprins13]

Mine is an auto........no trans fluid leaks that I can see. IF the rear main seal is leaking [ hopefully no too bad ] I'll live with it for now. Doing this work in the nov rains on my back in the dirt......no fun! The front crank seal doesn't look like it's leaking, but I will replace it anyway since it's all apart now.

Where did you put your oil catch cans? Why two of them?
I've been reading your posts on the catch cans. I will make one or two if needed and install where they need to go. Do you have pics?
FYI, mine is a 1991, fuel injected, auto trans.

Time to go do the oil pan gasket.......

Right, i forgot.
I can take pictures tomorrow. Make your own for sure, i wish i had, look at how fastivaca made his, i like it. I put one between the pcv valve and manifold, it catches most of that oil but at idle air/oil blows up that short hose from the valve cover into the intake tubing and fills it with oil. So i put one on that hose too.
I have manual drains on mine and hate it. They catch 30 times as much water/fuel/condensation as oil and need frequent draining. While your oil pan is off put a fitting into it for catch can drains and cap it for now until you make one. Ill be taking my pan back off to do that




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[Joe]

I just replaced the oil pan gasket now, and put a new one on. I forgot how much I like doing this greasy oily work, lol.
Looks like i will need to come up with an inventive way to drain the oil catch cans when I make them. I don't want that shyte going back into the system anyway.

How large or small are your catch cans?
How often do you need to drain them?

Wondering......could you not put both hoses into one can? Rather than making two cans?

Turns out the water pump is dripping, so that has been added to the list......another $60.

I'm about to change the cam shaft seal, trying to take the valve cover off, but the fuel inj intake throttle body interferes with being able to lift the cover off. Grrrr. I recall having trouble with that last time too. The Haynes manual doesn't even mention that issue. Guess I gotta loosen the throttle body to create enough room........

[ryanprins13]

My water pump was $35 and things in Canada are pretty expensive compared to you, where you getting it from?
Throttle body doesnt have to come loose! Turn the engine a little and wiggle the valve cover. A valve just hase to lower and it comes out.

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