rpikle, this thread's for YOU!!

[FestYboy]

ok, instant death is good, that's normal. not being able to keep it running with harness unpluged and feathering throtle is bad. you should be able to maintain a steady RPM off idle (~ 1500 rpm). not being able to do so is a main fuel circuit problem. could also be the shut-off solenoid sticking....

must devote more sleep to this before making educated guess.

[Tom]

Ok, Thanks, I'll be waiting. No hurry, I got it parked, we can just keep looking at this until we get it fixed. I appreciate your help a lot. I had reached the end of my capability.

[rpickle]

Me too Tom. Glad FestYboy is offering up his expertise. It will be GREAT when this gets sorted out, for both of us!

Rick

[Tom]

Yes and I'm with you Rick. We got to find something to do for this guy weather he gets them fixed or not. He's willing to give it his best shot, that's all anybody could ask. I see your talking cases of beer, I no longer drink but I'll throw in with you if that's what he wants. I have a bunch of parts too that he might want some of.

[Tom]

I thought of something for me to try and something for you to try. For me I will try disconnecting the battery and see if that lets loose whatever is doing this, FestYboy is looking at the possibility it may be electrical. For you with all the dirty fuel you had and all the guck, I would disconnect the fuel filter and run a wire through to the fuel tank. There might be something partially clogging your fuel line from the fuel filter to the gas tank causing your problem, it would still blow and still feed but not properly.

[rpickle]

Tom, good thought. I have replaced the fuel line from the carb to the tank, blew out the return line, replaced the gas tank, replaced the fuel filter and fuel pump. I may have some orfices in the carb that are plugged that the Berrymans didn't cut. FestYboy says that Berrymans won't clear rust.

I haven't had a lot of extra time to work on it. Hope to get a little on it this afternoon.

Good luck

Rick

[Tom]

OK, I started it up today and it started easy and my old fast idle is back. All by itself it came back and it idles easy and fast but when I go to rev it it dies out until I let off or I can feather up to high R's but as soon as I let off and it goes down again it stll dies out again when I try to step on it. I unhooked the battery cable and it did nothing. I'll go back and try the square plug by the distributer again. Last time I tried it it would barely idle and wouldn't rev at all when I u8nhooked it. This time it is high idling and will feather rev up pretty high even very high. I'll try it and see how it effcts it this way and get back to you.

[FestYboy]

Tom have you made sure your accel. pump is working? that may be the reason it's so hard to rev the engine but still be able to feather it to higher rpms.

speaking of higher rpms, how high are you talking?? if it's near the 3000 range, that means your main circuit is working... maybe not to its full extent but still working. also make sure your elec. choke is operating properly.

[Tom]

The choke is working. It doesn't seem like the accel pump to me because of the lag and then go. It will high rev all the way to the top if I let it. It acts similar to the vacuum advance not working, a dead spot that wants to die and then if you foot feed it past that it grabs and accelerates. When I let off it dies out and then grabs at the fast idle. Two days ago it would only idle very low and nothing else. It would die if you touched the throttle. Now it high idles and will rev if you get past the dead spot. It will probably just start running good again like it always does in a few days until it does it again. I got my marbles on a vapor lock, possibly in the accel pump or somewhere in the feed mechanism. The vacuum loss would be the same as if the vacuum advance was bad, if there is a lag in vacuum it would act up like this. Air lock or vapor lock creating improper air to all looks like the culprit to me. I tried to get the air hose off from the master cylinder to bleed the air off the system and it was to stiff. The air system that regulates the carb and distributor I'm sure feeds off from the intake manifold, there may be a valve or sensor there acting up. If all else fails I'll pull the manifold and the carb and put the one off from the other one on but I hate to do that when the simple fix is at hand if it can be figured out. It running perfect for days at a time confuses everything.

[FestYboy]

you gotta visually test the accel. jet on the primary side of the carb. it has to shoot a solid, strong stream of fuel whenever the throtle it opened, even just a little bit. actuate it with the throtle cable or cam, NOT by the accel. pump lever at the back of the carb. the lag you mention is a natural dead spot between the idle and main jet. the accel jet and slow port on the carb feed enough fuel between those 2 jets to eliminate the dead spot. CHECK THE ACCEL. JET!!

you mentioned that it feels similar to when there's no vac advance, have you made sure your vac tubes aren't backwards? I'm doubting this to be the problem, but might as well elliminate it from the list... also make sure there's manifold vacuum at the advance hose.


OK, i'm a moron.... you say you can feather it past the "dead spot" and then it accelerates normaly. there's a reason you can do this: vac advance is only in use up to 3200 rpm, after that it's all in, and there's also mechanical advance on our distros so that takes up some of it as well. basically anything past 2500 is full advance if everything but the vac portion is working correctly. have you double checked the timing at idle when warm, with both distro hoses pluged and the single blue wire at the distro disconnected? timing should be set at 0* BTDC, or if you're using better gas, bump it to 4* BTDC.
ALSO feathering it past the point where the main jet is in full use will aslo explain the normal accel after the "dead spot".

WARNING: you could be expierencing a combination of both symptoms!!! you've been warned.

[Tom]

There isn't any question it's the accel pump. It definitely is.(otherwise it would be loading up on gas and flooding the whole system) The question is is the accel pump being deprived electronically or vacuum wise or vapor lock wise from being able to pump instantly like it is supposed too or is the pump itself bad or is there debre blocking it from functioning properly. The timing is hand set by ear and feel. Don't forget the car runs great for days at a time and hundreds of miles and hundreds of stops and goes and up and down that gear box non-stop and cruising, you name it, all conditions. Like a Taxi for days and weeks at a time. The hoses to the dist couldn't be wrong. The timing couldn't be that far off. The pump has to be working all these times. The whole system is working properly all these times. An air lock or a vapor lock or a sensor is what I still think it is. How about the two hookups for diagnostic reports in the corner of the firewall at the far corner of the drivers side. What would they tell with a readout?

[rpickle]

Hi guys. I opened up my carb again. I think I may have stumbled into a major issue. The reed valve setup on the side of the air cleaner has been contaminating my carb with flakes of crap (rust, dirt, ect.) I removed the POS from the side of the air cleaner and will seal up any left over holes. I have to make sure my air cleaner lid is seating all of the way down against the filter element, which it must not have been. I will plug off the vac line that ran to side of the removed unit. I have connected the two pipes with one of the rubber hoses as Arty had suggested. I ran out of time this morning, so didn't get the crap cleaned out of the carb. Plan on doing that tomorrow. Originally took the carb off again to ensure no blockage of the idle circuit and the primary circuits. Need some smaller wire for that.

As far as the accelerator pump, my documents state that is an enricher, not the main fuel supply for the primary side. Is that right Arty?

Later gents.

Rick

[Tom]

Yours is starting to sound like a plugged cat converter but I know you must have looked at that.

[rpickle]

No Tom, not yet. Exhaust isn't my favorite thing. Wouldn't surprise me, since mice had inhabited several other areas of the car....

Another place to look, aye.

Rick

[FestYboy]

There isn't any question it's the accel pump. It definitely is.(otherwise it would be loading up on gas and flooding the whole system) The question is is the accel pump being deprived electronically or vacuum wise or vapor lock wise from being able to pump instantly like it is supposed too or is the pump itself bad or is there debre blocking it from functioning properly. The timing is hand set by ear and feel. Don't forget the car runs great for days at a time and hundreds of miles and hundreds of stops and goes and up and down that gear box non-stop and cruising, you name it, all conditions. Like a Taxi for days and weeks at a time. The hoses to the dist couldn't be wrong. The timing couldn't be that far off. The pump has to be working all these times. The whole system is working properly all these times. An air lock or a vapor lock or a sensor is what I still think it is. How about the two hookups for diagnostic reports in the corner of the firewall at the far corner of the drivers side. What would they tell with a readout?

debris is a very likely cause for your accel pump problems. the pump is mechanical and there are no vacuum or electronic controls for it, just a pump cam. not likely vapor lock, as that tends to happen more frequently than you say and more consistantly in hot weather.

check your timing with a light, not your ear or by feel. i've made that mistake before an it wasn't good. you can pick up a light for $20 or less some places. and YES the hoses CAN be wrong and the engine still idle normaly. the hose with manifold vacuum goes on TOP (black w/ red dashes) and the other plain black hose w/ NO vacuum goes on bottom. if the hoses are switched, and you hit the gas, there's nothing to tell the distro to advance the timing.

unfortunately the diag ports are just about useless unless you have a Star Diagnostic unit (and i know you don't) and even if you did, it's just about impossible to read anyway (i was taught how by ford, but that lasted a half day of training as it is an archaic (sp) piece of equiptment). there's a way to read coads with an anolog volt meter but that's equaly as difficult because the codes can be 2 or 3 digits and there's no pause between codes (like there is on OBD1 GM products)

please just humor me and try what i suggest, there'e a method to my madness, i swear it.


Rick, i know Tom's suggestion is tempting, but if your exhaust is that clogged that you can't even idle, there would be nothing comming from your tail pipe and cranking the engine would be near impossible after a few seconds. a cat can't get that clogged without burning itself up and melting first. even when it does that, the car will still idle normaly. if you want to look at the exhaust, look for crimps that completely pich off the pipe. i already know you don't have this issue having heard your engine.

As far as the accelerator pump, my documents state that is an enricher, not the main fuel supply for the primary side. Is that right Arty?

that is correct, the main, and ONLY fuel supply for the primary AND secondary circuits is the bowl. if the accel pump doesn't opperate properly, the engine will stumble when you hit the gas pedal (leans out) untill the main circuit can catch up to the air flow demand (if it can do it fast enough, and most carbs can't)