wudddup 1.5L twin cam turbo frankenstien mazda motor!!

[Safety Guy]

Thanks Getnpsi.

Yep, we need to have more info on the Z5 and related parts. Keep in mind they're also newer, FWIW.

Rocketman, Z5s came in 1995+ (to 1998?) Protege DXs (base model). They have a rather distinctive intake manifold configuration and are rated at around 95 hp. I'm mainly interested in them due to the potential for a reasonably powerful, yet more modern and hopefully, fuel efficient, engine choice. Imagine more power than a B6 SOHC with B6 or even B3 mpgs.

Now I'm wondering if the bottom end parts might be lighter than a stock B6 to be used in an "mpg" low friction build.

I don't think they came on anything else imported to the U.S.

Karl

[getnpsi]

I hope you are not thinking of "dumbing down" a z5 with a b6 sohc head. I think some of the better mpg is in its head design. Choked up for high performance flow perhaps but balanced right for economy, along with it's higher compression.

But, the bottom end only...hm...gotta go look at the bores again. Since fattie? said his b3 can be punched out to b6 specs, I'd rebuild a b3 for the z5 pieces, maybe starting with a b6 block wont work. As the guys who are doing swaps are tripping over their dirty b3's in storage this could be a whole new market for them?

And then you have this. Carb adapter guy...wow http://www.cardomain.com/ride/639953...optima/page-10

[Safety Guy]

Frankly, I don't know what I'm doing yet! Just getting ideas. I'd love to just put a stock Z5 into a Festiva, and it's been done several times in the Philippines, but I'm worried about OBD-II issues. I've done two B6 swaps and three suspension swaps, but I still feel like a beginner. Perhaps the best chance of OBD-1 compatibility would be the 1995 Protege Z5, which was not fully "OBD-II compliant," which may mean there are fewer issues. Or not.

However, if Z5 block internals are lighter than their past B series engine parts, why not incorporate them into a B3 or B6 "mpg" build?

As for "dumbing down" a Z5 with a B6 head, I was only thinking "aluminum block." However, with an aluminum block, I'd probably want to go DOHC with the Miata head and cams, etc. Then I'd have to confront issues with getting that running right, since so far I've only heard of problems with B6 DOHC builds.

I think my "dream build" would be an aluminum block DOHC with around 110 hp. Enough power (for me) and better handling than any normal FWD swap, with stock transaxle. My rough (wishful?) guess is an aluminum block could be 30 to 40 pounds lighter than a B3.

Any advice and info is appreciated, though I don't want to mess with the OP's thread!

Karl

PS: Found this thread on miata.net:

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=413943

Sounds as though the aluminum block Z5 may not exist. Discussion on Z5/Z6 Mazda engines, which OP may be interested in if he hasn't seen it. I'll keep looking.

[getnpsi]

I just need to drive out to santa ana and bring a magnet with me as stated earlier. We can confirm al blocks real fast that way.

[festyfreak39]

well the z5 bore is smaller than the b6 block,

and as for the internals of the z5 they are SUPER SUPER light weight and the rods are much skinnier than the b6 DOHC, i dont know if they are the same as the SOHC or even lighter, i could rip off my oil pan i suppose ,

and rocketman, the crank pulley does not fit from the z5 on my any of my b6's the crank is alot wider where the crank pulley slides into, actually WAY bigger.

[getnpsi]

Well that sounds like great news on all accounts. b3 rebuild to z5 spec with oem crank and rods...but z5 are so plentiful anyway don't know why you'd not just use an already together turning bottom end...time is money, oh and gasket sets aren't free.

Bad it doesn't fit BUT good on the crank nose. I guess they were gun shy from all the fails in the earlier b-series 1.6/1.8 design.

Safety and I are chit chatting on another thread about MZR engines...trying to not detour yours more but since this is a first for festivas and several of us are "building thru you" at this point bear with us.

[festyfreak39]

Well that sounds like great news on all accounts. b3 rebuild to z5 spec with oem crank and rods...but z5 are so plentiful anyway don't know why you'd not just use an already together turning bottom end...time is money, oh and gasket sets aren't free.

Bad it doesn't fit BUT good on the crank nose. I guess they were gun shy from all the fails in the earlier b-series 1.6/1.8 design.

Safety and I are chit chatting on another thread about MZR engines...trying to not detour yours more but since this is a first for festivas and several of us are "building thru you" at this point bear with us.

im willing to help as much as i can take as many pics as i can!,

so sorry you want to bulid a b3 with z5 specs? why would one want to do that again?

[Safety Guy]

Festyfreak asked:

"You want to build a b3 with z5 specs? why would one want to do that again?"

Basically I just want to find the lightest crank, rods and pistons to use in a high mpg build of a B3 or B6. It sounded as though the Z5 internals are very light and would be good choices for that purpose.

Karl

[chrisofna]

How? Without the weight it would never maintain momentum for cruising. When my friend put a lightweight flywheel on his Swift GT he lost like 6 mpg on the highway.

[festyfreak39]

How? Without the weight it would never maintain momentum for cruising. When my friend put a lightweight flywheel on his Swift GT he lost like 6 mpg on the highway.

that is weird!!!!!

and im not entirely to sure the z5 stuff is much lighter than the z3 stuff, i can tare appart a b3 bottom end and take some pics ?

[chrisofna]

that is weird!!!!!

and im not entirely to sure the z5 stuff is much lighter than the z3 stuff, i can tare appart a b3 bottom end and take some pics ?

I believe it's because the weight of the flywheel keeps the car moving and doesn't work the motor as much cruising at highway speeds. Now if you wanted a crazy revving motor then everything as light as possible would be epic.

[getnpsi]

Safety guy was interested in the lightness more than me. I was just speculating for the guy who already has a b3(s) with issues at home.

A lighter flywheel on an engine with more displacement...in a car it didnt belong in (protege's weight a lot more) should offset loss in tq around town and off the line. The b8 guys with modded flywheels claim fun. For the 1.5 I'd not halve it but a shaving couldn't hurt. A lot of performance clutch kits are lighter than stock assemblies themselves so keep that in mind.

NEXT: Does a z5 head fit on a b3 with no valve hitting? Budget 1.3 dohc!?! If that worked you'd have to buy another festiva for that engine haha
You have a z5 head and a b3 sitting there, umm playdoh left? (ahem)(cough)(poke) If out of playdoh I'll totally paypal you to cover playdoh candy soda beer smokes your choice

EDIT: You have already tried to put a miata head on a b6 block, I assume the b3 would not turn either. Wonder if you can cut custom reliefs into b3 pistons cheaply, as 1.3 dohc pistons are unobtanium.

Either way you have another weekend ahead of you, have fun with your z5 if you get some time.

[festyfreak39]

Safety guy was interested in the lightness more than me. I was just speculating for the guy who already has a b3(s) with issues at home.

A lighter flywheel on an engine with more displacement...in a car it didnt belong in (protege's weight a lot more) should offset loss in tq around town and off the line. The b8 guys with modded flywheels claim fun. For the 1.5 I'd not halve it but a shaving couldn't hurt. A lot of performance clutch kits are lighter than stock assemblies themselves so keep that in mind.

NEXT: Does a z5 head fit on a b3 with no valve hitting? Budget 1.3 dohc!?! If that worked you'd have to buy another festiva for that engine haha
You have a z5 head and a b3 sitting there, umm playdoh left? (ahem)(cough)(poke) If out of playdoh I'll totally paypal you to cover playdoh candy soda beer smokes your choice

EDIT: You have already tried to put a miata head on a b6 block, I assume the b3 would not turn either. Wonder if you can cut custom reliefs into b3 pistons cheaply, as 1.3 dohc pistons are unobtanium.

Either way you have another weekend ahead of you, have fun with your z5 if you get some time.

Hey sorry for the late reply to this, ive been super busy just got a new job!!! my car isnt even running yet im planning on putting in the motor tonight, but why would you wanna put a z5 head on a b3 block? the z5 head is pretty different and in my opinion its what makes a z5 a dog. the valves are supppper tiny and its kinda a waste of time.

Cutting reliefs into the b3 pistons will not be cheap.. putting a miata/b6T DOHC head into a 1.3 block is something i really gotta try out, but tahts after i get my beast running

Ordered a turbo. woot woot!

[Rocketman]

How? Without the weight it would never maintain momentum for cruising. When my friend put a lightweight flywheel on his Swift GT he lost like 6 mpg on the highway.

I put a Fidanza flywheel in my Capri when it was still FWD, and noticed no change whatsoever in mileage. I was getting 34-36mpg highway which was really good for my setup and tired engine

[KIADOHC]

Theres no aluminum block Z5......none in my experience so far....already handled almost 50 plus units of Z5 already

All Mazda Z5 Crankshaft I have handled....all have the revised Big Nose Crank

Pulleys Interchange as long as the pulleys came from the same B or Z-series of Mazda engines with the Revised Big Nose crankshaft.

The crankshaft are of the same part number as the B3....whenever I open a Z5 block ....I always see the "B3XX" code on the crankshaft....so I think its just the same as the B3 crankshaft since they both have the same stroke dimensions of 83.6mm and having the same size of rod bearings as the B3

Z5 boost capability....In my boosting experience with my Z5 DOHC engine....that Im still using up to now.....the engine is holding 18PSI....the max boost I can get from the Garrett T28(from a Nissan RB20DETT engine)....all stock Internals...and Z5 head + block all the way.

And Yes....from all the Mazda engines I have opened.....the Z5 have the most skinniest rods.... I wondered why its holding up the 18PSI boost(while in my Mazda BPD...the GTR spec 210HP version...I was boosting the last time I used it for 20PSI)

My Z5 Turbo is revv limited up to 7,500RPM....set it up in Megasquirt....reason is due to a laggy turbo...and I dont care much about my Z5 if it gets ruined. And because my Z5 Turbo project actually started for reasons of experiencing and studying ....Turboing a non turbo engine and to test the Z5 Maximum potential.

Havent Dyno tested my Z5 Turbo....maybe next month, before I change its Turbo to a bigger one.