Does anyone have a 200+ HP motor Festiva?

[FestYboy]

you people are all forgetting about the old Cosworth Grand Prix 1.3 turbo motors.... they were making close to/over 1000 HP. it can be done.... period. so yeah, they had 16 valves and bomb proof bottom end, but the numbers were there and they won races.

200 hp NA is a staggering number for a B3 requiring 2.53 hp per ci, NASCAR engines only produce about 2.2 hp per ci. Here's where the B3 can make up for the loss of cubes... RPM. Figure that the NASCAR engine can make 2.2 hp @ 9000 rpm, the B3 (if built correctly) can pull to almost 12000 rpm. the problem is that it won't be streetable, nor will it last like Ra wants it to, and the required octane is expensive s#!t.

...just went to an online HP calculator, i gave the festy a race weight of 1750 w/ driver and a 13 sec 1/4 mile time. It told me that Ra would need about 160 hp at the wheels and 205 at the crank. THIS IS JUST AN ESTIMATE.

...and i just ran a calculation for required torque@rpm = HP: Ra would need 132 ft/lbs @ 8000rpm to make the 200hp mark at the flywheel. that's A LOT!! of torque. now, if we up the rpms to 10k, the required torque drops to 110.2 ft/lbs. AT 10,000 RPM.

my $.02

EDIT: I own page 4!!!! muahaha :wink:

[eye_of_ra93]

I know we are going to have some problems at 1st, but atleast the motor will be done. Then we can work on tuning, suspension, clutch and tranny. We have some work cut out for us, it wont happen over night, however we will achieve the speed and power we are looking for eventually. Tests will be done to get her to perform and then we will tweak where it is needed. HP can be achieved if you really work at it, the engine we are building we hope will last. She's not going to be racing all the time. She's an every day driven car, but when I want power it will be there to eat Honda's, Toyota's, Mustangs ect.....
We hope to accomplish great things, we hope to inspire folks to try something different. I don't like to be the same as others. When we thought about the project at the start the thought did cross my mind to install a B6t, but after much discussion we decided we wanted a 1.3 turbo port and polished with other mods.
If I accomplish what we hope don't hate my numbers.
and.... If I don't respect me for attempting.


We are crazy people who enjoy speed. And speed/power is what we desire.



If she doesnt last "motor wise" oh well, atleast I will have some speed records that wont be touchable here at FF.com

Be patient people.

[superduder]

up until now I haven't remarked on the engine, but I have to give credit
to Ra for trying this with the sohc 1.3.
I raced formula vee And formula ford 1.6 before and was planning to
build the jdm BJ engine using some of the tricks I learned there.
Such as
needle bearings in crank and cam, spherical rotary valve head,
carbon ceramic pistons, dry-sump lubrication, hiiii boost.
It's totally possible to get the numbers you're talking about from 1.3 Liters.
and without av-gas OR a million dollars.
So good luck and I hope you get what your after.
J

[Silv3rBull3t]

So you are going to finish the motor and just expect your stock clutch to hold?? You are going to expect air suspension to be able to put the power down?? Wow dude I really hope you are kidding if your engine really does make close to 200hp... :roll:

[relentless]

If she doesn't last "motor wise" oh well, atleast I will have some speed records that wont be touchable here at FF.com

Be patient people.

That sounds like intial D has be watch to many times.



I thought you had a goal maybe Little out of reach but you wanted to make a killer 1.3 so ok but if you cant awnser question like what pistons and what rpms you will be turning than Your PRO hasn't communicated anything to you. I have seen imports fly in the 8's 9's and 10 at my local south Florida track but they are rear wheel drive and they leave the line at well above 5000 rpms. I have never watched more then 1/2 round without a few coming apart. The local track moroso has changed rules from so many oil downs by imports that they are required an engine diaper At 11.99 or 10.99 for all imports. I think you will be disappointed. As for record with a 1.3 I really want to see what you can do now. I am done with this thread you put on your poker face I call check I will wait to see what you got.

[oxbrain]

Assuming you do get 200hp out of this car, how do you hope to compete against the 250+hp B6Ts and BPs? After a certain point, the chassis just won't put down any more power. You can only increase wheel size so much, and without a complete tube frame frontend and a different tranny you won't eliminate torque steer or wheel hop.

I can understand wanting bragging rights, but I think in this case you're letting the power get away with you. The car will be fast, I don't think anyone is arguing that, but it won't be the fastest without a completely different design concept from what you currently have. Lets face it, your car is a show car. You're dealing with a limited amount of grip to accelerate, and a stripped out car will be faster than a car with a full stereo system and plush interior.

Oh, and if you are running slicks, you might want to tape up the whole side of your car, I bet repairing rock chips gets expensive.

[eye_of_ra93]

The undercarriage will have supports, and motor will have supports. We plan to have our car hold together. We will create a structuraly sound Festiva. She won't twist and my front end wont rip off. Whether or not I will keep the air ride is another thing. I know she wont ride or grip at high HP or speed with airride. So for certain tests I might pull that suspension out for a month or so.
I put the airride in myself so I can take it out or put it back in no problem. No big deal.
We have alot of mods to do to the body of the car still, but 1st we gotta get the engine done and drop her in. From there they will design the exhaust system, and try to hide some of it so folks won't know what I got. Then they will weld in some good metal for stability, and work on tranny and clutch.
This isnt going to be some Cracker Jacks Festiva, custom everything. In order to support the power other mods will be necessary. First we just want to get her motor done.
I will show you horse power soon enough, don't be scheptical, with the right things being done we can achive what we desire.
As mentioned with a previous reply in this thread many mods are necessary. My crankshaft, pistons and cam will be one of a kind for the Festiva 1.3
Don't count your chickens yet, some even here in Albuquerque are aware of my motor and "who" is building it, they know the Eye of Ra will be a contender.
Just wait til you get our Dyno print outs !!!

[mattswabb]

The body will be strong enough. I would make or buy a strut tower brace. Maybe check into some FMS engine and tranny mounts. They are stiffer than stock or go with some solid mounts. The solid mounts are harder on the drive train, your stock tranny will suffer with stiffer mounts.

I would keep looking for a 323gt or capri xr2 tranny and axles. This will hold the power no problem. I suspect you'll have problems with the stock tranny.

[EVOGUN]

Number one you can't call it a 1.3 anymore if you change rods, pistons and crank your going to change the displacement. So from now on, your only allowed to call it a B3.

Thanks :wink:

[festivagt]

...

I just wish I still had a copy of the article that Rich had put on FF.com about a custom one off B3 from about 5 years ago. They totally redesigned the head - new throat, valve angles and positions(cut the head up and started from scratch). The valves were ground down chevy 350 pieces - extra large - 3 angled valves and seats. I believe they made a new intake and exhaust manifold, Custom one off billet rods and custom forged pistons lightened and knife edged crank with a girdle. Balanced the entire assembly. The best they could pull out of it was a measily 125hp N/A. At that level, they had to rebuild the engine every 10 hours of running(give or take) due to the assembly being so ridiculously light. I believe they had a electric water pump and a dry oil sump setup. So did I miss anything? I mean they basically redesigned the engine and built parts that they did/could not get. I think thier efforts were rewarded with a price tag of about $30k. About the only thing I can think of that they didn't do was to cryogenically freeze everything. Your going to top a list like that? If your 'tech' can mod the ignition and fuel maps on the B3 ECU, why not hook him up with the rest of us so we can all get our equipment recalibrated? I mean it takes alot of time sometime YEARS to hack a PCM so you can edit the hexadecimal values(edit your calibration).

[Safety Guy]

The only really hypo B3 I've heard about was the one built by Jeg's that made 150 hp.

Joe, I wish you luck, but I'm one of the sceptics. I hope you're not being "taken for a ride."

BTW, you haven't mentioned enormous improvements in fuel economy...

Karl

[JerseyJay1.8T]

wow, i really hope i didn't just read cosworth being compared to some shop that no one's ever heard of in albuqurque...

Ra, i don't know what these guys at this shop are feeding you, but if you can afford this (and i'm not making a dig or insult here), then they are not doing anything that has "never been attempted before". Maybe never attempted in a B3, but the internal combustion engine has been around for a very long time, and pretty much all of the tricks that can be used, have been... unless they are building you a custom head with solenoid/stepper motor actuated valves, for infinitely variable valve timing, and somehow rewriting the laws of physics along the way. And thats not something that any one man man can afford. Itt would probably drive Bill Gates to the poorhouse.

I'm not saying any of this to be derogatory or negative. But there's a point where reality has to step in. If this motor does come anywhere NEAR 200 whp without a turbo/supercharger/nitrous, it won't last for more than maybe 40 1/4 mile runs... if even that far. Gasoline only has so much energy to be released in combustion... an all-motor car can only flow so much air. Even at 100% volumetric efficiency (impossible) you'd still only be able to get 1.3L of air/fuel mixture into that engine for every 4 rpm. I could go and take 4 hours to run the math as to how it would be impossible to make 200 hp with that, but frankly, I don't have the time. If the engine is to run methanol.... things could be different, but again as i don't claim to be a math major i won't be doing any calcs to prove it. All i'm saying is that if no one else, including race teams with millions at their disposal, have been able to do this, than why do you think these guys at this relatively no-name shop are going to be able to?

Nascar engines make in the neighborhood of 120 hp/liter... you're shooting for 150+ hp/liter... Wanna know how much a NASCAR engine costs? around $40,000, and that's for something thats already been researched and developed.

[SimonTuffGuy]

I can't wait to see the dyno sheets.

Oh, and I'll need a video of the Ra on the dyno and then moving over to the computer with the numbers still displaying to believe any scanned dyno sheet.

:lol:

[eye_of_ra93]

You got it Simon, and I will also video shoot her in 0-60 MPH, 0-100 MPH and ofcourse in 1/4 mile time.
Tranny will need to be upgraded soon, I hope we can get the gears we want to slap in, if not I will look into a donor tranny.
I plan to astonish folks with power, she won't be a fly by night motor. Its so far taken 3 months to create and we are nearing her completion. I will have your Dyno print outs, and as I said I will take her to DJ to prove things and let him see what we created.
Im hoping for engine longevity, if she needs a rebuild every 50k or so oh well a small price to pay for the power I will have.
Im going to conferance call him, and discuss, longevity, clutch and tranny. We have discussed issues already, but now we will discuss resolutions to problems that we may incurr.
I wouldn't compare Wayne J. relation to owners of HKS to any fly by nighter. We don't plan to BS anyone. You will get you numbers by DYNO print out and I will video everything.
For those who didn't know Ra will also be turbocharged with 2 inch exhaust and Flowmaster.
I hope to get some respect around here with the motor we are creating.
Don't count your chickens yet folks, claims have been made on me achieving the power I desire, some say its possible and others claim its not.


Well for those who believe in me thankyou, behind my wrenches is someone who is capable of building such a motor.

For those who dont believe in me, let me prove myself wrong and thank you for all your input.

This isn't the Arena but I truly appreciate all your feedback and criticism. You are all my friends, regardless.

Lets see what we can create out of a 1.3 Fuel injected motor.


Hope to have you numbers soon Simon.

[B6T]

Don't like sounding like a dick but if you were gunning to have the fastest Festiva, you started with the wrong engine and definately the wrong transmission. Unless your using some seriously expensive custom made pistons and rods, you're going to have a hard time beating the power handling capability of a factory stock B6T or BPT engine.

There is also no way even the builtest of built Festiva transmissions will ever be able to reliably hold anything higher then stock B6T power levels. I know this from first hand experience. Why do you think I was the first to put the G-series in the Festiva? You can get expensive custom gears made, but then the gear shafts will snap. You can get custom gear shafts, but then the case will crack. You can reinforce the case, but then the differential will explode. It will be a never-ending effort to keep the transmission in one piece. I have the feeling that a few people are soon going to soon start seeing the limits of the G-series transmission.

I have no doubts you'll be able to touch high 11's with all the work you claim to have planned. But I do have serious doubts about the reliability and longevity of your setup.

These are just some things to consider before you get too far into it.