engine rebuild and fuel economy mods

[mattdickmeyer]

If you have the adjust ability, move the intake c/l in to between 104-108 degrees. This will open and close the earlier in the intake stroke, on the intake this will affect the engine much like a tighter l/s would. Years ago in sportsman and sportsman pro (oval track) I would build 383's for those guys and they wanted me to put 305 heads on for the increased compression. Needless to say Mike Sailsberry won the championship in 2000 with my 383 with 350 heads and lower comp, after a point flow rules!

[iceracerdude]

No pissing match here, you asking me about needing a job is a bit off the subject though wouldn't you say? I've done what I do well enough to actually be retired at this point in my life, and I don't mean a medical retirement. I mean with a pension as well as selling two successfull business's at a profit! But thanks for the offer just the same.
Me taking exception to you catagorizing, or more accurately, trivializing meth injection as a "cheap add on" that somehow must not be effective based on the idea that you don't see it in all racing venues, or it's not something you're using at your shop is the issue here. You need to make a distinction between what works, and what works for lots of money, You are after all, on a festiva forum is my point.
Talking about 2 and 3,000 hp engines on the festy forum is not going to be a substitute for trivializing things you don't feel are worthy of your lofty standards.
Everybody here knows more money equals more HP, so why cop to a moot point like that?
If you have as much experience as you say you do, then you must also acknowledge it was in the hp toolbox of the majority of racers in the majority of venues, until it was taken away by the governing bodies
of those venus. That's not the same thing as "most all cheap add ons" or my associates only use more expensive alternatives.
We exsist here because of what we have in common, what we take from the interaction, so don't let the fact that you can't buy competitive spirit here go and scare you off now ;-)

[mattdickmeyer]

No offense, just stating the facts. And again, I cordially invite you to the IMIS (International Motorsports Industry Show) in Indianapolis Dec. 6-8 at the Convention Center (a format much like SEMA). I could probably get you VIP passes. After I speak, fellow shop owner Joe Gibbs & myself, will be hosting a Q & A portion where I may bring up this very topic. The show will host 100 of the top engine builders in the world on premises, where they will name the top 3 engine builders in the US. I am sure any one of us would be willing to engage in enlightened conversation of theses topics. Hope to see you, Matt.

[blkfordsedan]

If you have the adjust ability, move the intake c/l in to between 104-108 degrees. This will open and close the earlier in the intake stroke, on the intake this will affect the engine much like a tighter l/s would. Years ago in sportsman and sportsman pro (oval track) I would build 383's for those guys and they wanted me to put 305 heads on for the increased compression. Needless to say Mike Sailsberry won the championship in 2000 with my 383 with 350 heads and lower comp, after a point flow rules!

I had planned on advancing the cam 4 degrees. The theory would be to have the intake valve at a higher lift during the point ATDC when the most cylinder filling occurs, and also close the valve sooner to help dynamic compression...at least that's what I understand. I'll probably buy an adjustable sprocket next spring.

The cam is a FMS competition (street) cam. The valve events are a little odd...much different than a typical V8...which I assume is due to the OHC follower design(?)
I mapped it out with a degree wheel, but only on the head with the wheel attached to the end of the cam. I used the timing marks on the head to find theoretical TDC, then adjusted the readings for actual crank timing. It was rather hard to do because of the geometry of swing-follower style rockers, but I'm confident I'm within a degree or two of being dead-on. At least it gives me a basic idea of the cam profile, which had no published specs, LOL. I plan on doing it the right way to double check everything, now that the motor is assembled.
The intake lobe C/L is 116 ATC from what I measured. The intake opens at 45 BTC and closes at 71 ABC, but the lobe center is at 116 ATC. Please feel free to look up my thread on the FMS cam and make any comments or observations.

[mattdickmeyer]

I had planned on advancing the cam 4 degrees. The theory would be to have the intake valve at a higher lift during the point ATDC when the most cylinder filling occurs, and also close the valve sooner to help dynamic compression...at least that's what I understand. I'll probably buy an adjustable sprocket next spring.

The cam is a FMS competition (street) cam. The valve events are a little odd...much different than a typical V8...which I assume is due to the OHC follower design(?)
I mapped it out with a degree wheel, but only on the head with the wheel attached to the end of the cam. I used the timing marks on the head to find theoretical TDC, then adjusted the readings for actual crank timing. It was rather hard to do because of the geometry of swing-follower style rockers, but I'm confident I'm within a degree or two of being dead-on. At least it gives me a basic idea of the cam profile, which had no published specs, LOL. I plan on doing it the right way to double check everything, now that the motor is assembled.
The intake lobe C/L is 116 ATC from what I measured. The intake opens at 45 BTC and closes at 71 ABC, but the lobe center is at 116 ATC. Please feel free to look up my thread on the FMS cam and make any comments or observations.

The optimal time for your valve to be at peak lift is at 90 degrees of crank rotation, at 90 degrees, piston speed is at its max. This is when the induction signal
is at its greatest, offering the most potential to completely fill the cylinders. Of course, cylinder head design, RPM, stroke & rod length come into play here & cam selection in respect to lobe separations & installed center lines is where experience prevails.

[bhearts]

where did you get that great flange at?

[Advancedynamix]

Your right, the rings don't have a direct effect on the VE, and that statement was a little crammed together and inaccurate. The squish does have an effect on VE and it typically has a positive one at lower engine speeds due to an increased velocity during scavenging. A flow bench can tell you about as much about VE as my mom can teach you about welding. There are many physical and chemical factors that are left out on a flow bench. The engines volumetric efficiency is ever changing as external forces are changing around the engine. I'm not looking for an argument here either, this is a leisure for me. I plan to learn from your posts, and enjoy the things you write about. Possibly we may be able to learn together. I have also been known and mingle with a few of the nations top engine builders, heck we have a couple Wally statues collecting dust here at the shop, and many a saturday have been spent fixing the DTS or Froude. 3000hp isn't much in this neck of the woods either so lets take things down a notch and treat each other with respect. Too small of a pond to be throwing stones my friend.

[iceracerdude]

where did you get that great flange at?

Thanks, Had it cut on a waterjet machine from the gasket. How bout that welding?
I got a friend that welds 3A grade, did that for me. 3A is USDA food grade welding, no slaggy allowed! My turbines love him.

[mattdickmeyer]

Your right, the rings don't have a direct effect on the VE, and that statement was a little crammed together and inaccurate. The squish does have an effect on VE and it typically has a positive one at lower engine speeds due to an increased velocity during scavenging. A flow bench can tell you about as much about VE as my mom can teach you about welding. There are many physical and chemical factors that are left out on a flow bench. The engines volumetric efficiency is ever changing as external forces are changing around the engine. I'm not looking for an argument here either, this is a leisure for me. I plan to learn from your posts, and enjoy the things you write about. Possibly we may be able to learn together. I have also been known and mingle with a few of the nations top engine builders, heck we have a couple Wally statues collecting dust here at the shop, and many a saturday have been spent fixing the DTS or Froude. 3000hp isn't much in this neck of the woods either so lets take things down a notch and treat each other with respect. Too small of a pond to be throwing stones my friend.

My point was completely lost in all of this & if it's not understood by now, than it never will be. Your comment is exactly what I am talking about, inaccuracy. Squish has a HUGE affect on the combustion process as it pushes the combustion activity to the center line of the piston. But squish has ZERO affect on volumetric efficiency as VE established on the intake stroke. As I said before, VE is the measurement of the actual air the enters the cylinder. Squish occurs at TDC on the compression stroke. My point on meth injection is that it is being confused with the best way to cool & control intake air & combustion. It's not the best way, but it is the cheapest way. The fact is, my point was so mucked up by ridiculousness that I don't even remember what I was saying. So I apologize to the poor guy who started this thread & get back to his thoughts.

[Advancedynamix]

Matt, your point wasn't lost, it was disputed. I have used every form of intercooler imaginable, from water cooled to Freon. I have a laminova core chargecooler that I could use on my car. There are more benefits to water injection than what you have stated.
There is also more to VE than the intake event. Scavenging and pulse velocity are both affected by the squish at tdcvo. Your flow bench won't tell you this story. I'm simply trying to do the same thing you are here, have an educated conversation about engines and I think the O.P. can learn a lot from this.

[mattdickmeyer]

Matt, your point wasn't lost, it was disputed. I have used every form of intercooler imaginable, from water cooled to Freon. I have a laminova core chargecooler that I could use on my car. There are more benefits to water injection than what you have stated.
There is also more to VE than the intake event. Scavenging and pulse velocity are both affected by the squish at tdcvo. Your flow bench won't tell you this story. I'm simply trying to do the same thing you are here, have an educated conversation about engines and I think the O.P. can learn a lot from this.

I stupidly feel sucked into a dumb conversation as scavenging & pulse velocity are directly related to port length & diameter, intake valve seat angle & header diameter & length & are manipulated by cam shaft overlap. Not only is this common knowledge, but a velocity probe on a flow bench confirms this. None of which are influenced by squish. Squish or quench influences full & air motion towards the center line of the chamber. The odd fact is, tightening the squish increases compression BUT reduces pre-ignition. For this reason, I have a proprietary process where I will spec a piston with a lower ring land location, run the piston crown above deck & machine the cylinder head with an appropriate recess which will allow the piston crown to enter the combustion chamber. Completely blocking the cylinder head gasket. Virtually eliminating head gasket failure in high cylinder pressure engines. The effect of squish has had ALOT of research around here. I happen to know that I am the only person to have done this.

[Advancedynamix]

Porsche turbo heads have been designed like that since the early 80's. Squish does affect port velocity, and the intensity of the pulse width. It can only be measure dynamically by equipment that, to the last of my knowledge, was only in the hands of a few OEM contracted test facilities. Several of which I have worked with.

[mattdickmeyer]

Porsche turbo heads have been designed like that since the early 80's. Squish does affect port velocity, and the intensity of the pulse width. It can only be measure dynamically by equipment that, to the last of my knowledge, was only in the hands of a few OEM contracted test facilities. Several of which I have worked with.

Like I said, just passing on my findings in my limited experience. Believe me, you have PROVEN the level of your experience. So lets put that to work & help this guy who started this thread with worth while suggestions for him.

[TheresGabe]

So wait... Just so I have got this right. Turbo goes psss psss... water goes vroom vroom, but no psss pss?

[Movin]

but I am sure that you will get plenty of feedback.
.

Wow!! Maybe OP can step in after digesting this and ask what he still needs to know!