Twin charged bp

[koRnhead]

Clearly my time is more valuable to me than yours.
And yes proof will be needed. Because I flat out don't believe you. But hey interwebs fight means you can say anything you want.

[drddan]

:happy1: This is getting good.

[ZephTheChef]

Clearly my time is more valuable to me than yours.
And yes proof will be needed. Because I flat out don't believe you. But hey interwebs fight means you can say anything you want.

Low blow! Lol. I will definitely work on that proof. Just have to wire a second map sensor into my egr or something else unused so I can log it. Have been putting off that job for a while anyway, so this will be good motivation to get it done. Just to be clear that we agree on the symptoms of the supercharger choking the turbo, I would say that we will see one of three conditions with the supercharger bypass completely open.

1. if the pressure in the turbo outlet pipe is significantly greater than the pressure in my lower intake manifold, then the supercharger is getting in the way, like you think it will.

2. If the pressure in the intake manifold is higher, then my bypass is not flowing enough to take all the load off the supercharger and I am getting compounding, but the supercharger definitely is not impeding the flow, but rather adding to it.

3. The pressures are substantially similar, the supercharger is having zero net effect and is being effectively turned off.

I can see scenario 2 or 3 happening, but not number 1. There are definitely some factors to be aware of that could skew the results. My intercoolers may affect the pressures, but it should be a consistent effect. The other concern is that I may not be able to run less than 1 bar of boost, which would max out both map sensors, in which case we would have to compare values during spoolup as opposed to on the big end. I currently have a "medium" actuator on the turbo (borg warner EFR9180), which is supposed to be adjustsble to as low as 9psi, but we'll just have to see as I have not tested it yet.

[koRnhead]

I would expect you to have massive surging issues as the turbo will be all kinds of unhappy blowing into a spinning m90.....the whole point of twincharging something is to run big psi off the turbo, giving you huge top end. But use the supercharger to fill in the low end and spool your giant snail....running both at 10psi would negate all the effort of running both. If that's what you plan on doing with yours it will probably drive ok. But not make all the work worth it.
If your m90 is at 10psi....and your turbo is set to say 25psi.....the whole point of doing this.....you will have problems.
Guess I need more info on what psi you are trying to run.
I look forward to hearing what you have. At heart I am a car guy. And love crazy things like this. But I'm not backing down on trying to make this work on a bp and in a festiva is a waste of time and money.

[Damkid]

Again I ask how will you package all this inside a festiva engine bay??? Your gonna make a plate to spin the m90 off the side of a bp into a turbo and then into the motor?? Have you seen a bp inside a festiva??

Why do you care? You seem to be taking this thread personally

[Damkid]

But I'm not backing down on trying to make this work on a bp and in a festiva is a waste of time and money.

Dumping a ton of money into any economic car is a waste of time and money, we do it for the love of the project, that's it

[koRnhead]

Because I've been bored today. And this has been all kinds of fun for me.

[koRnhead]

And again the original answer to bhearts question was sound valid advice based on how twin systems work. And then all kinds of fun started happening and it was too much fun to stop raining on people's parade.

[Damkid]

and it was too much fun to stop raining on people's parade.

That's called trolling, usually doesn't last too long on here, just saying

[koRnhead]

Not trolling....you have clearly read all my posts in this thread. Not once did I make a statement without actual cat knowledge behind it.
You're the one who called me a ray of sunshine. So whose trolling who????

[ZephTheChef]

I would expect you to have massive surging issues as the turbo will be all kinds of unhappy blowing into a spinning m90.....the whole point of twincharging something is to run big psi off the turbo, giving you huge top end. But use the supercharger to fill in the low end and spool your giant snail....running both at 10psi would negate all the effort of running both. If that's what you plan on doing with yours it will probably drive ok. But not make all the work worth it.
If your m90 is at 10psi....and your turbo is set to say 25psi.....the whole point of doing this.....you will have problems.
Guess I need more info on what psi you are trying to run.
I look forward to hearing what you have. At heart I am a car guy. And love crazy things like this. But I'm not backing down on trying to make this work on a bp and in a festiva is a waste of time and money.

Mine is an M122, but same exact concept, just 35% longer rotors. All those eatons are the same diameter rotors, so it's apples to apples...actually, my 1000hp turbo through a 650hp supercharger is a much better example to test this out with as compared to a 350hp turbo pushing through a 500hp supercharger...if it holds true in my setup, it definitely would on a 16G and m90. On my car, the goal is to maintain the low end torque and instant response, but be able to put down more power on the top end without putting more stress on the engine. Meaning, I fully expect it to take 100-150hp to spin that m122 at high rpms. A stock m90 at stock pulley speeds takes 40hp. If I turn the supercharger "off" after the turbo spools, I can make 100+ more hp to the wheels with the same load on my connecting rods and other engine components, and the same fuel consumption.

So the endgame is to have my supercharger pumping out 15-20psi or whatever it works out to until the turbo triggers my adjustable boost switch, simultaneously closing the bypass actuator's reference line to the manifold and opening the valve to the vacuum reservoir which opens the supercharger bypass. Peak boost on the turbo will eventually be 30-50psi, but I will have to break a few engines and discover the weak links in this caddy transmission along the way, and it will be low 20-25 psi or so for a while. Tuning the crossover is probably going to be a bitch, and I fully expect to feel the transition, but it also should be pretty low in the powerband. I have concerns about my intercooler choking things...it is a cobra intercooler and the passages are quite fine..I have a much flowier setup (albeit with a lot less heat transfer area) in the works but that is probably 6 months down the road or more.

And yes, the car and the setup as a whole are a hackjob. I would rather get it done, debugged, and working and make it pretty later...so if it works on my ghetto setup, it will for sure work on a well designed setup.

Frankly, I don't see why I would have problems no matter where the boost is set. It will compound if they are both on and it will be turbo only with the bypass open. Inlet pressure has no effect on the operation of a roots supercharger, and downstream plumbing/configuration should have no effect on the operation of a turbo either. Theoretically, I could run up to 76psi in compound boost. Granted, I am never going to make more than the biggest pump can flow, so there would be no point in doing that unless my engine was not able to ingest the cfm that the turbo puts out at the pressure it does that at and needs additional compression..but it's pretty doubtful the supercharger could handle that volume of air either, so probably would not be able to add full 20psi of compression anyway. That is definitely unexplored territory as far as I know, and I doubt I'll ever have the engine and trans and intercooling to worry about it.

[sketchman]

Trololol.

Mr. Sunshine, you have been less than constructive most of the time. Call that whatever you like.

I've found numerous examples of this idea from google searching, and some very simple backyard ones too. I say go for it.

1. It WILL fit if you make it. Get off that train already.
2. It has been done simply with other cars and not with tons of R&D put into it. Down off the horse.
3. I've run out of points quite quickly, so there isn't one here.

I say again, go for it, and see what happens. It's the OP's idea. He's not wasting anyone else's time but his if it doesn't work.

[Damkid]

Twin charged bp

Not trolling....you have clearly read all my posts in this thread. Not once did I make a statement without actual cat knowledge behind it.
You're the one who called me a ray of sunshine. So whose trolling who????

If you haven't noticed, it's my job to point out trolls on here, that's what I'm doing now

After our last "chat" you've been on my radar and I see you're up to the same crap and by the above post, it's obvious I'm not the only one who's noticed

[koRnhead]

Wait wait wait....we never said he should use a 16g in this scenario!! We said a built BP running a 16g by itself was a better option then trying twin charge it!!!


And not really the m112 is vastly more capable of power then the m90. The cobra guys get way better boost levels then what the m90 guys can.

Time will only tell if the m112 case can handle that much getting blown into it. I don't think it can. There just isn't enough flow to move that much air with the rotor pack still in there....tho I'm curious what made you want to do all the work when something like a Whipple 4.0 would give you all the things you want. And while it's an expensive blower if you add up all your time even at a cheap 50 an hour the Whipple is probably cheaper and easier to tune.
Pm me I would love to text this stuff our instead of using this poor thread. And definitely like to see pics......
I'm no hack multiple cars my dad and I built have been in magazines. Our 280z made 3 magazines back in the day. Including Sport Compact Car back when that was the major import car mag

[koRnhead]

Show me how you would make a m90 plus a turbo and a bp fit in the front of a festy. Lol

Sigh please just ban me already. This is losing its fun.