Picture Proof EGT/Protege LX/Protege 4x4 Front Calipers Work

[sasquatch]

there was only one aspire and it had the spindles taken off

[Safety Guy]

Chris asked, "Isn't there a point where too strong a brakes would get dangerous?"

I don't know about that, but larger calipers will probably result in more unsprung weight, and larger rotors will result in more unsprung, rotating weight.

There is a difference of 1.5 pounds per side between manual and auto Aspire rotors. I weighed it awhile back.

For some, that will not matter. I'd like to know the weight penalty before I'd swap to EGT calipers and rotors.

Of course, there may also be a cost savings, depending on how much new parts are or what you already have available.

Knowing what will swap is always good, though!

Karl

[Rumnhammer]

Brakes

I guess I'll be the one to agree ^ with above. You are getting quite a lot of variables when doing this brake swap. So I'll outline a few points to ponder, and also I'll post that you guys can do whatever you want on YOUR cars, so don't go throwing me under the bus for posting my views that are based on my experiences with various upgrades. So that said look at these points and decide for yourself.

First point the festiva is a very light car, that when stock makes not much hp. The stock brakes are adequate for a stock car. Thing is that it doesn't take much to make the stock festy brakes no longer adequate, mainly because they are tiny, and non-ventilated. This combined with the fact that they need to be pressed off the spindle and they have an old less common bolt pattern, make the Aspire swap very attractive. And personally I think that it should be done on all festys.

With the Aspire swap you are getting bigger rotors that are ventilated, hat type (non press off) larger calipers with larger swept area, better bolt pattern, and larger rear drums while still being able to use the stock festiva master cylinder. The brake bias remains the same because the brake proportions are the same, the components are just larger.

With the Aspire swap you are increasing the rotating unsprung weight a little, but not dramatically enough to be very noticeable. Going from stock festy to Aspire, mostly yields greater braking because the greater weight comes from the increase in width from venting and greater swept area.
This equals much greater heat dissipation for a small penalty in increased weight. The primary reason for the better braking from doing the Aspire swap is better heat dissipation, which is how differ in how good a job they do. The more heat they displace the better the braking, brakes transfer motion energy into heat energy.

When you upgrade brakes, you need to take several things into consideration. You need to balance increased braking ability with the penalty of greater unsprung rotating weight, changing the brake bias, wheel fitment, etc.
In other words just because you can fit larger brakes does not always mean it is worthwhile.
Here are a couple of questions to ask before you stick the protege front brakes on.
Even though the rotors are larger, are you increasing the swept area of the brakes? take a look at the rusty pic posted, in this thread. See the swept area that is shiny? That is the part that does the stopping. In other words, even though the rotor is an inch larger you have only about a half inch more usable swept area.

Next check the weight difference between the Protege rotors and calipers compared to the Aspire units. Unsprung weight and rotational unsprung weight makes a HUGE difference in how the car feels when accelerating and handling, and more weight here is not good for handling or anything else. This is not as important on a festy with a BP or B6t as you have a lot better acceleration, but on a mildly modded car, you would notice quite a bit of decreased performance.

Most aftermarket big brake kits get around this by making the calipers from Aluminum, and making two piece rotors with the top hat Aluminum too, so you not only get larger brakes with larger swept area, but also less rotational unsprung weight then stock as well.
Also when you go with an after market big brake kit the calipers are usually 4 piston instead of the one big one you get with any stock caliper, this gives better distribution of clamping force on the swept area making the brakes more effective.

By putting larger Protege brakes on the front of a Aspire brake swap, without installing the rear disks from the Protege, you may also get into some brake bias issues, since you are changing the ratio of front to rear, away from what is balanced with the front Aspire brakes. I don't think this would be as much of an issue as the weight/fitment vs performance issue though.

Which brings me to the final consideration. Given that most of the increase in braking performance is already utilized from converting to Aspire brakes up from festy brakes, you need to ask why are you putting the slightly larger Protege brakes on your car?
In other words weigh these considerations before doing it.
You are putting only SLIGHTLY larger swept (usable) area brakes on for a larger increased unsprung rotational weight penalty.
You will need to possibly fit larger wheels to fit.
Are you doing this just for the bragging rights? (too be able to say you have them?)

Did you consider a more aggressive Brake pad, or stickier tires first? these two things would likely give better braking results then a small increase in rotor size.

Like I said before, you can do whatever you want with your car, as it is not my place to say what you should do, but sometimes it is a good thing to look at more information before going ahead with something.
ie weighing the real science against any possible Psychological (just because it is bigger it has to be an increase in braking performance) thinking and upgrading.
That said, if you could find a OEM replacement that fit that was 4 piston aluminum, with a larger rotor, and could fit the matched rear brakes and a matched master cylinder, you would have a better bang for the buck but on most festivas, unless you are running serious hp this is overkill.

Probably the biggest question to ask is, will the small increase (probably barely noticeable) in braking make this worth doing?
if you have already gone from festy brakes to aspire brakes, then you have seen a much larger increase in braking performance then you will notice from doing this upgrade, because you already got more effective brakes in all areas of braking with a very small weight penalty.
anyway just my educated opinion.
Chris Rummel
donning flame suit now. :wink:

[Safety Guy]

Good description, Chris!

Remember too, that there are variations in Aspire setups.

If you want thicker rotors, go with auto Aspires.

If you want better response and quality, go for more expensive, better quality parts, plus the braided metal brake lines.

If you want a change in brake feel, experiment with different M/Cs.

IMO, the best thing to do for most folks would be to ensure that your whole system is as new and well put together as possible:

-high quality pads?
-uncorroded brake hard lines?
-newer brake hoses, or metal hoses?
-everything within spec?
-have you changed your brake fluid lately? (less than two years old)
-is your front end properly aligned and do you have good tires?

IMO, the people who should be exploring other brake options would be those who:

-are simply doing it for experimental purposes, to add to our knowledge base
-those running significantly more powerful engines, such as Shogun conversions, or BPTs, etc.
-those who get certain parts free or very very cheap (for example, someone who is using a whole EGT)

While I agree with Chris about the Aspire brake/suspension swap being GREAT for all Festivas, there are a few who should probably keep their stock Festiva setup:

-those who are seeking maximum fuel economy
-those whose stock brakes are working perfectly, and who don't go fast or carry heavy loads (usually no more than two people and moderate baggage)
-those who simply don't have the resources to do it and who rely upon shops to do their work

Don't get me wrong: experimenting for its own sake is fine! Keep adding to our knowledge. I will be checking out Kia Rio components myself when I can, but mainly for the "newerness" of all the parts, especially knuckle assemblies.

Just don't make the mistake of thinking that "bigger and cooler is always better."

Karl

[fordfest78]

I want the car to roll over forwards when I tap the brake... doesn't everyone?

[Nerd Racing]

The main reason why I posted this was because I was bored and an experiment in fitments worked. I will be using these brakes on my car next year when it undergoes a massive drivetrain transplant BOTH front and rear. They will be necessary when I am done.

[gottafesty]

For me it's just fun putting stuff on the Festiva. But I do see pros and cons as Safety Guy and Rumnhammer have laid out.

I want the car to roll over forwards when I tap the brake... doesn't everyone?

Nothing like an endo to get the adrenaline flowing. :lol:

[sasquatch]

ive been working on getting my brake setup done, finaly i got my disks and they are to big. you said 10.1/4 will fit. what the heck is going on? the only thing i can think of is that i got my spinles off of a aspire with abs. the disk needs to be 3/4 inch smaller to fit. are you shure that EGT/Protege LX/Protege 4x4 Front Calipers are all the same?

[sasquatch]

can some one tell me what is going on, i need to figure out if i need diffrent spindles or calipers.

[MPG]

According to RockAuto the following vehicles all use the same caliper:
FORD ESCORT (1993 - 2002)
FORD ESCORT GT (1991 - 1996)
FORD ESCORT LX (1991 - 1998)
FORD ESCORT LX-E (1992 - 1993)
FORD ESCORT PONY (1991 - 1992)
FORD ESCORT SPORT (1993 - 1998)
FORD ZX2 (1998 - 2003)
MAZDA MX-3 (1992 - 1995)
MAZDA MX-3 GS (1992 - 1994)
MAZDA MX-3 PRECEDIA (1995 - 1996)
MAZDA PROTEGE 4WD (1990 - 1991)
MAZDA PROTEGE ES (1995 - 1998)
MAZDA PROTEGE LX (1992 - 1994)
MAZDA PROTEGE S 1995
MERCURY TRACER (1991 - 1999)
MERCURY TRACER LS (1997 - 1998)
MERCURY TRACER LTS (1991 - 1996)
MERCURY TRACER TRIO (1994 - 1998)

I had some concerns about fitment of these parts that I posted on the first page, but I'm not sure if there was ever a test done to confirm that everything would fit properly.

[Omgloltokyodrift]

can some one tell me what is going on, i need to figure out if i need diffrent spindles or calipers.

10 1/4'' sounds HUGE for an Aspire. In the first post of this thread, it's stated that the 22 14V (22 14V is what those calipers are labeled) caliper will bolt up to the Aspire spindle, with the Aspire rotor. Is it possible that you used a BG chassis rotor?

[Damkid]

from what i've understood in this thread the protege/escort GT CALIPERS bolt to the aspire spindles allowing for the larger protege/escort rotors to bolt on and clear the calipers

[Omgloltokyodrift]

NR wasn't able to try the BG rotors. Second page of this thread, starting with MPG's post.

[sasquatch]

ok well im getting 9.1/4 rotors now, that should solve that problem. ill update as i go along. also, dose anyone know if the abs aspire spindles are diffrent that the non abs ones?

[niklid05]

Isn't there a point where too strong a brakes would get dangerous?

yea... biting the steering wheel.