Traction bars/compression struts ideas

[twisted]

I've seen threads here discussing ideas about traction bars and/or compression struts, modification. some to replace the sway bar completely, some to complement the sway bar.
here is my version, utilizing and cutting up the sway bar and attaching the heim joints to it. here is a rough sketch

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/gn31.png/

the goal is to:
1. maintain constant caster alignment(at least getting rid of the front sway bar busings) under hard acceleration.
2. to be able to play around with adjustable front sway bars, or totally doing away with it.

what are your thoughts. anyone see if this is a bad idea for a daily driver/weekend warrior?

[drddan]

Watching this thread ....

[FestYboy]

i see the weak link already: lower rad support. under alot of pointed stress (lotso power or heavy track use) that heim joint will put alot of stress on that lower support and likely cause it to flex, especially on the right side. re-enforcement of that lower support should be a mandatory addition to your idea.

do we know if the OE sway bar is hollow to more easily accept this mod?

[nitrofarm]

i see the weak link already: lower rad support. under alot of pointed stress (lotso power or heavy track use) that heim joint will put alot of stress on that lower support and likely cause it to flex, especially on the right side. re-enforcement of that lower support should be a mandatory addition to your idea.

do we know if the OE sway bar is hollow to more easily accept this mod?

LOL I Bunny hopped a 6" curb with my Aspire this winter. Bent that bar real good,dont think its hollow.
And a doubler like you said would be a great idea,I' already drew one out in my brain when I looked at how rusty my Festy one is. If you have access to press brake you could make one in short order.
I would like to hear what you guys think of the RIO front end.Seems like that front end would be fairly straight forward to graft in. (but it obviously wouldn't be adjustable)

[twisted]

I was actually thinking about a tubular subframe type of support/reinforcement, but im trying to keep costs down.
I think the rio part would be more reliable given its an OE part, but it doesn't do away with the busing up front. also its not very common in my part of the world, so finding a used part to experiment on will be a challenge.

[Advancedynamix]

I was actually thinking about a tubular subframe type of support/reinforcement, but im trying to keep costs down.
I think the rio part would be more reliable given its an OE part, but it doesn't do away with the busing up front. also its not very common in my part of the world, so finding a used part to experiment on will be a challenge.

Yeah, like Arty said, you'll need to strengthen the front end. I made a removable front support for my b6t car and it makes a world of difference. Also, you'll be better off with isolated (rubber or poly) bushings on both ends of the links (like Kia did it). You want a certain amount of flex and you need frequency absorption. This aids in tractability and durability. Solid mounted driveline/suspension components are usually a mistake on FWD cars (usually a mistake on any door slammer really).

[Movin]

The lower core support is not supported well enough by the frame horns especially the part that goes over the CV shafts. For this reason I would like to forgo the sway bar altogether and use a heim at the lower ball joint to knuckle mount and use a rubber sleeved rod end at the crossmember mount. Beefing the crossmember would provide much stronger fore and aft strength than the frame horns could provide to the lower core support. Both sleeved ends would be on the side of the crossmember that is the middle.

The lower control arm will also go by by and will also use a heim at the lower ball joint mount and a rubber sleeved rod end on a frame socket welded to the opposite side lower control arm mount. Twin I beam. Both adjustable.

This is necessary for me as the stock lower control arms even with the 1 1/4 stretch I have given them are not long enough to work with the long travel suspension. As seen in todays pic my coil overs are on the lowest setting to keep from using the top part where the CV's can over extend.

[/URL]

[nitrofarm]

Charlie I'm surprised to see a x-Member in there.What kind of rubber front mount are you using there? Are you using he same in the rear also?

[Advancedynamix]

Charlie I'm surprised to see a x-Member in there.What kind of rubber front mount are you using there? Are you using he same in the rear also?

The trans cross member is a very important part of the structure and the stock part is hard to beat, with it's light weight but very rigid design. The front of my crossmember is isolated by rubber steering couplers that I bought at pep boys, the front trans mount is a Ford truck Leaf spring bushing and my rear is a modified Capri rear tranny mount. I mount everything in rubber to isolate the pulses from the engine. Traction is key, and drivetrain pulses will act like an impact gun on the tires, breaking them loose with less TQ. Isolating these frequencies will allow the car to put more TQ to the ground with less wheel spin. My B6t car gets better traction than my stock festiva. less wheel spin, less tq steer, and much much more power. This is due to more forward weight bias, a more rigid drivetrain (better drive axles) and a reinforced frontal area.

[nitrofarm]

The trans cross member is a very important part of the structure and the stock part is hard to beat, with it's light weight but very rigid design. The front of my crossmember is isolated by rubber steering couplers that I bought at pep boys, the front trans mount is a Ford truck Leaf spring bushing and my rear is a modified Capri rear tranny mount. I mount everything in rubber to isolate the pulses from the engine. Traction is key, and drivetrain pulses will act like an impact gun on the tires, breaking them loose with less TQ. Isolating these frequencies will allow the car to put more TQ to the ground with less wheel spin. My B6t car gets better traction than my stock festiva. less wheel spin, less tq steer, and much much more power. This is due to more forward weight bias, a more rigid drivetrain (better drive axles) and a reinforced frontal area.

Interesting,very interesting

[Movin]

The trans cross member is a very important part of the structure and the stock part is hard to beat, with it's light weight but very rigid design. The front of my crossmember is isolated by rubber steering couplers that I bought at pep boys, the front trans mount is a Ford truck Leaf spring bushing and my rear is a modified Capri rear tranny mount. I mount everything in rubber to isolate the pulses from the engine. Traction is key, and drivetrain pulses will act like an impact gun on the tires, breaking them loose with less TQ. Isolating these frequencies will allow the car to put more TQ to the ground with less wheel spin. My B6t car gets better traction than my stock festiva. less wheel spin, less tq steer, and much much more power. This is due to more forward weight bias, a more rigid drivetrain (better drive axles) and a reinforced frontal area.

This info with the first bit about the lower core support is very sound design for what you guys are doing. The rational about vibration and shock control with strength is what I am trying to achieve for offroad trail riding.

[twisted]

Interesting,very interesting

very interesting indeed. especially the part about the impact gun analogy, ive never thought about it that way.

[Advancedynamix]

Using an impact gun with rigid impact sockets breaks bolts loose quickly, now use the same gun with a non impact extension. The bolt takes more TQ to free. Pulses work great to free tight bolts, and they also work great to free sticky tires. This is also the reason for wrinkle wall slicks, and why F1 cars don't run low profile tires. These cars use the tire to absorb the pulse frequencies developed by the engine.

[EVOGUN]

Also those F1 tires absorb a lot of energy like a shock absorber, teams do a lot of balance with tire pressure as well. Watch a slow motion of a F1 car and you can see the tires doing all kinds of crazy.LoL

[Advancedynamix]

Very true. F1 tires are extremely advanced and nothing like a typical race tire that is available to the public. I have had the chance to get my hands on a few of them and my mind is still blown.
Good to see you posting again EVO!