Building the ultimate Festiva street suspension...

[mikemounlio]

Perfect answer once again. Thanks man.

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[Advancedynamix]

If i could get mk2 front and mk1 rear coilovers and just respring them would that be a good setup? Someone else said some sellers will split the kits. Or is the rear setup that you posted just better?

I guess im asking why not just use mk1 rears?

The mk1 kyb shocks are valved perfectly, can be built cheaper, and weigh less than the mk1 threaded body coilovers. They also provide a lot more tire clearance than a large body coilover would provide. Tire clearance is big concern on a Festiva, as is weight over the rear axle.

[theastronaut]

Are the MK2 rear struts (GR-2 pn 343191) valved different than the MK1 Rabbit struts? I used MK1 KYB GR-2 rears (341007) and they seem a bit soft compared to the front MK2 Racelands. I know they don't need to be as stiff as the front since there's less weight in the rear but they still seem to be a little soft. Running 125/105 springs on a full weight b3 car. I might try 120 pound rear springs next. I also need to get taller bump stops all around.

[mikemounlio]

Sorry I wasn't able to chime in sooner. I was at the track all weekend doing more development work on this exact topic.
Here is the quick break down on the ultimate low dollar street worthy track car.

Mk2 vw coilovers in the front. You can get a pair of the cheap ones that hottuning sells on ebay for under 200 dollars. They work better than the expensive bilstein 40mm ones I built years back. They are worth the money, and they are completely servicable, so (if you ever manage to blow them, which I haven't yet) you can rebuild them for less than 50 bucks.
You will want 120lb 12" front springs (1 9/16 diameter) on a car with stock engine placement. 150lb 12" springs with a forward mounted engine, possibly 175"lb fronts with a bp that's forward mounted.
Get all your springs and coilover sleeves from southwest speed. These guys are great and you can't beat the prices or service.
2002 Kia Rio strut mounts. Use 12mm cone seat lug nuts to center and hold the strut into the strut bearing.
On the rear, use kyb excel g rear shocks for a 1993 vw cabriolet with the small body bilstein coilover sleeves sold by Southwest speed. They are for 1 7/8 dia. Springs. The guys at SW Speed won't know what your trying to do, so just trust me on this. They sell parts for dirt track cars, not Festivas. Lol. The kyb rear shocks may require a bit of sanding to get the small body sleeves on, but they do fit.
Use 105lb 10" rear springs (1 7/8 diameter) for a gutted car that won't be used to carry much cargo. Use 120lbs 10" rear springs for car with interior and used to carry poeple or cargo, use 150lb 10" rear springs if you intend to tow, or your rear passengers are particularly healthy weight folks.
You'll need to slightly modify the rear shocks on the bottom mounts, and you'll need to source or make rear spring tops.

With this exact setup I have comfortably driven across country (the entire continent) and back. I have driven in dirt, mud, and rain. The car holds and rides much much better than stock. On the track my lap times are faster than fully track prepped Miatas on R compound tires, even though the Festiva was on 400 tread wear Chinese tires that only cost 50 bucks a tire shipped! (This was accomplished with a b6d swapped festiva with stock 5 speed in stock location, a b6t or bpt swapped festiva with forward mounted drivetrain will compete with exotic sports cars and full blown big bore race cars) The fesiva is the ultimate street worthy track toy.

This setup is dirt cheap and can turn the car into a corner pounding animal.

Other notes:
These cars love negative camber. I run 3.5 degrees negative all the way around,with zero toe. It improves stability, and reduces rolling resistance. It also drastically improves wet traction and corner control.
Try to keep as much weight forward as possible. The old 50/50 rule is not the hot setup on a light FWD car. Moving the engine forward is like waiving a magic wand. These cars are stable and comfortable up to 160mph with the right suspension setup and the engine moved forward. I routinely turn into corners at tripple digit speeds on the track in a festiva. Corner entry speeds are consistently faster than anything on the track.

If i could get mk2 front and mk1 rear coilovers and just respring them would that be a good setup? Someone else said some sellers will split the kits. Or is the rear setup that you posted just better?

I guess im asking why not just use mk1 rears?

[Advancedynamix]

Stock B6t with stock tune. Overboost switch was removed. No intercooler, 14psi boost with water methanol injection.

Here is the build thread for that car

[mikemounlio]

Another quick note.
The 120lb front/105lb rear spring combo will provide a wide range of ride height adjustment. It will ride very comfortable on roads with pot holes and speed bumps. It is not harsh at all. On the track the chassis is balanced well and will provide a confidence inspiring experience. It's really hard to out drive this setup. I tried to spin the car by coming in too hot and the car just did what I asked without spinning or excessive push. It's one of the most well balanced vehicles I've ever driven. The biggest problem is my arms are very sore from the lack of supportive seats and the very slow steering ratio. A power steering rack upgrade and some race seats are a must.

A little motivation. The Festiva has the first version of this suspension setup. The tires on the festiva are worn to the cords, and the C6 Corvette is a dedicated track car being driven by a professional driver who wanted to see what lines were optimal for a light FWD car. I attempted to let Justin by towards the end, but the Corvette couldn't hold the corner speeds of the Festiva even after slowing way down. We were taking turn 3 (at the top of the long uphill straight) at over 110mph.

What motor setup did the festiva in the video have?

[mikemounlio]

Advancedynamix YOU ARE KING! Thank you for the info. I will be ordering these very parts very soon. Screw the adjustable crap! Ill go with this.

[Advancedynamix]

That makes perfect sense. The information is a bit confusing because this has been a 5 year, ever evolving expirament. There are close to 30 cars worldwide with this setup now (that I know of) and I'm currently still testing and building different cars. I need to go over the advance suspension modification thread and simplify it.

[Zman86]

Thank you for the input, I realize that all this info was available in your advanced suspension thread, but I was having a hard time deciphering everything and making a parts list. I plan on retaining the stock engine for this year and focusing solely on suspension modifications, I want to get the car handling and braking properly before I add any power.




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[Advancedynamix]

Another quick note.
The 120lb front/105lb rear spring combo will provide a wide range of ride height adjustment. It will ride very comfortable on roads with pot holes and speed bumps. It is not harsh at all. On the track the chassis is balanced well and will provide a confidence inspiring experience. It's really hard to out drive this setup. I tried to spin the car by coming in too hot and the car just did what I asked without spinning or excessive push. It's one of the most well balanced vehicles I've ever driven. The biggest problem is my arms are very sore from the lack of supportive seats and the very slow steering ratio. A power steering rack upgrade and some race seats are a must.

A little motivation. The Festiva has the first version of this suspension setup. The tires on the festiva are worn to the cords, and the C6 Corvette is a dedicated track car being driven by a professional driver who wanted to see what lines were optimal for a light FWD car. I attempted to let Justin by towards the end, but the Corvette couldn't hold the corner speeds of the Festiva even after slowing way down. We were taking turn 3 (at the top of the long uphill straight) at over 110mph.

[Advancedynamix]

Sorry I wasn't able to chime in sooner. I was at the track all weekend doing more development work on this exact topic.
Here is the quick break down on the ultimate low dollar street worthy track car.

Mk2 vw coilovers in the front. You can get a pair of the cheap ones that hottuning sells on ebay for under 200 dollars. They work better than the expensive bilstein 40mm ones I built years back. They are worth the money, and they are completely servicable, so (if you ever manage to blow them, which I haven't yet) you can rebuild them for less than 50 bucks.
You will want 120lb 12" front springs (2 9/16 diameter) on a car with stock engine placement. 150lb 12" springs with a forward mounted engine, possibly 175"lb fronts with a bp that's forward mounted.
Get all your springs and coilover sleeves from southwest speed. These guys are great and you can't beat the prices or service.
2002 Kia Rio strut mounts. Use 12mm cone seat lug nuts to center and hold the strut into the strut bearing.
On the rear, use kyb excel g rear shocks for a 1993 vw cabriolet with the small body bilstein coilover sleeves sold by Southwest speed. They are for 1 7/8 dia. Springs. The guys at SW Speed won't know what your trying to do, so just trust me on this. They sell parts for dirt track cars, not Festivas. Lol. The kyb rear shocks may require a bit of sanding to get the small body sleeves on, but they do fit.
Use 105lb 10" rear springs (1 7/8 diameter) for a gutted car that won't be used to carry much cargo. Use 120lbs 10" rear springs for car with interior and used to carry poeple or cargo, use 150lb 10" rear springs if you intend to tow, or your rear passengers are particularly healthy weight folks.
You'll need to slightly modify the rear shocks on the bottom mounts, and you'll need to source or make rear spring tops.

With this exact setup I have comfortably driven across country (the entire continent) and back. I have driven in dirt, mud, and rain. The car holds and rides much much better than stock. On the track my lap times are faster than fully track prepped Miatas on R compound tires, even though the Festiva was on 400 tread wear Chinese tires that only cost 50 bucks a tire shipped! (This was accomplished with a b6d swapped festiva with stock 5 speed in stock location, a b6t or bpt swapped festiva with forward mounted drivetrain will compete with exotic sports cars and full blown big bore race cars) The fesiva is the ultimate street worthy track toy.

This setup is dirt cheap and can turn the car into a corner pounding animal.

Other notes:
These cars love negative camber. I run 3.5 degrees negative all the way around,with zero toe. It improves stability, and reduces rolling resistance. It also drastically improves wet traction and corner control.
Try to keep as much weight forward as possible. The old 50/50 rule is not the hot setup on a light FWD car. Moving the engine forward is like waiving a magic wand. These cars are stable and comfortable up to 160mph with the right suspension setup and the engine moved forward. I routinely turn into corners at tripple digit speeds on the track in a festiva. Corner entry speeds are consistently faster than anything on the track.

[william]

Longer struts will alow more body role with a lowered car if your gunna lift it the mk3 would work great.
Thats the whole reason for going mk1 rears shorter then stock.
And one can put the rears together for about 220 if you shop around I even found a guy on ebay that has the top hats for 25 for the pair


Those were his last 2 pair but he said he was making more those were left overs from his mini sprint race car.

[mikemounlio]

You are right that all you have to do is grind some of the bottom mount off, but the "problem" ( quoted because its not a huge issue) is that the MK3 rear strut bodies are longer. If you go with the MK1 struts they are already shorter than the Festiva struts giving you an instant drop in ride height before you factor in the adjust-ability of a coilover sleeve.

so is this extra length not really an issue? I am getting tired of looking back and forth as to what to actually spend my money on. So many choices. I really want to just buy the raceland kit and new springs and be done.

[gergorian]

Look up prices for some bilstein front struts, sleeves and springs. If its cheaper than about $380 shipped go for it. But you can get a whole set on eBay for $280 plus new springs. That is the fronts done. The rears are about $300 for 2 struts, 2 sleeves and 2 springs.

[Zman86]

So is assembling your own coil overs for the front essentially the same as the rear? I'm leaning towards this option and away from the cheap coil overs, like you said above, most of the kit gets tossed, and id rather go with a quality bilstein or Koni strut than a raceland.


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