tools to get to do a good DIY wheel alignment.

[sketchman]

lol I don't trust anyone anymore. I lifted my mom's Crown Vic recently, and I told her to take it to the newest shop we have here for the alignment.

They told her the control arm bushings were trashed and the whole rack needed replaced. Thankfully she called me first. I just had all that apart, and I knew it was all fine. I even just replaced the rack myself. lol

I took it to another shop, they never said a word, and aligned it with no complaints. So, I guess, just another X2 for DIY on this stuff.

[ryanprins13]

What I don't get is how people use a gauge that attaches to the break rotor. I mean when you drop the car everything changes what am I missing here?

Anyone? I also do not understand this.

I've used crap from home depot to align cars that topped 200mph at Road America, lol. The most valuable part of any alignment is the aptitude of the person doing the work. You'd be surprised how many alignments that are done in state of the art shops are way off spec.

Well I guess I can only hope that i have this aptitude. Ill probably try to find a book or online articles about wheel alignment so I can understand what i am doing better.
I worked in a mechanic shop when I was younger. I was the apprentice so I did all the oil changes, tires and simple stuff like starters and alternators, but I did help with wheel alignments a few times. With the rack they had it seemed to me anyway that the critical part was setting the machine up right, it seemed difficult to me. There was more than a few times when I was called over to push on the sensor or wheel so he could hit the print button while everything was green on the screen...

A little bit off topic but I thought I'd share my experience with a local shop that has since lost my business. Took the Festiva in for an alignment and reminded them that the only adjustment on a Festiva, realistically, is the toe-in or toe-out. They asked me if the car was lowered and I said "a little bit". They immediately said that the alignment would now cost 50% more because "it's more difficult to do with aftermarket shocks on the car". Went to another local shop and got a discount off their regular price!

I should really learn to do this myself... Charlie, you want to come for a visit and show me how?

Ian

This is a big part of the reason I want to learn this. Wheel alignments are the only thing I take my vehicles to a shop for (other than getting my drums lathed once). I had a shop cause a lot of damage to my civic doing a wheel alignment which i didnt notice till i took the tires off 7 months later. Would have been about $800 to pay a shop to fix it and it took me many, many hours and its still not right. Another time I heard a faint pop/bang and the car drove funny so i went for a wheel alignment. Kal tire charged me for a wheel alignment but said their machine cant align my car and they werent sure if it was right so they would only charge me $80 for the 2 wheel alignment rather than the 4 wheel. Took it somewhere else and they informed me that my ball joint had popped down.... Had my key ripped out of the ignition in the acc position at another alignment shop, steering wheel ends up all over the place, inner tie rod end boots twisted so much they rip.... I'm just sick of it. Its the only thing I take my vehicles in for! Seen a guy with a 4ft prybar jammed into the rear of my civic just reefing on it to bend something so the screen goes green...

Yes.

Really? We could have a wheel alignment/festiva meet! That would be fun.

I started out setting the toe by using a tape measure to the tread. I had one time where I was having a very frustrating time getting the toe to adjust consistently. I'd make an adjustment, roll the car back and forth to settle the suspension, and it'd be different. Finally I put the car in the air and spun the wheel. There was around 1/8" of axial runout to the treads! They were some cheap Dural tires and I hated them already, after that I hated them more, but I've read that runout to the tire treads is pretty common.
Sidewalls can have a fair amount of runout as well, but I haven't had problems as bad. Taking measurements 24" apart gives you better resolution as well, so I've transitioned to toe plates and can't imagine going back.

Another variation is wheel runout, both axial and radial. Most wheels I've check have had .020-.030" of runout with some being closer to .060". I've heard tolerances on some steel wheels are ~1/8", though that seems really excessive. If you're being real picky you can mark two spots on the wheel that are the same and align them with the axis you're trying to set (horizontal for toe, vertical for camber).

For checking camber I've placed a square on the ground and measured to the top/bottom of the wheel. A little bit of trig can give you the angle. For instance I was setting the camber on some wheels that were 14.25" from bead to bead and I wanted 2.5* of negative camber.

sin(2.5)*14.25"=.622"

Aiming for a 5/8" difference top to bottom on the wheel gives about 2.5* of camber. You could use the step measurement on a pair of calipers to get real close, but I figure I can easily get within 1/16" with a ruler and that's about 1/4 degree... close enough for me.

I'm no expert and I don't race these things, but it seems to work well enough for me.

Now, if someone has a good way to measure and adjust caster...

Thanks for reminding me about the runout. I have a few 12in tires and rims that are pretty bad for that and hadnt thought of it in relation to alignment.

lol I don't trust anyone anymore. I lifted my mom's Crown Vic recently, and I told her to take it to the newest shop we have here for the alignment.

They told her the control arm bushings were trashed and the whole rack needed replaced. Thankfully she called me first. I just had all that apart, and I knew it was all fine. I even just replaced the rack myself. lol

I took it to another shop, they never said a word, and aligned it with no complaints. So, I guess, just another X2 for DIY on this stuff.

I have experienced checking a car over then having the female owner take it to a shop and recieve a huge list of perfectly fine parts that apparently need replacing as well. Its sick.

[Advancedynamix]

Well I guess I can only hope that i have this aptitude. Ill probably try to find a book or online articles about wheel alignment so I can understand what i am doing better.
I worked in a mechanic shop when I was younger. I was the apprentice so I did all the oil changes, tires and simple stuff like starters and alternators, but I did help with wheel alignments a few times. With the rack they had it seemed to me anyway that the critical part was setting the machine up right, it seemed difficult to me. There was more than a few times when I was called over to push on the sensor or wheel so he could hit the print button while everything was green on the screen...



This is a big part of the reason I want to learn this. Wheel alignments are the only thing I take my vehicles to a shop for (other than getting my drums lathed once). I had a shop cause a lot of damage to my civic doing a wheel alignment which i didnt notice till i took the tires off 7 months later. Would have been about $800 to pay a shop to fix it and it took me many, many hours and its still not right. Another time I heard a faint pop/bang and the car drove funny so i went for a wheel alignment. Kal tire charged me for a wheel alignment but said their machine cant align my car and they werent sure if it was right so they would only charge me $80 for the 2 wheel alignment rather than the 4 wheel. Took it somewhere else and they informed me that my ball joint had popped down.... Had my key ripped out of the ignition in the acc position at another alignment shop, steering wheel ends up all over the place, inner tie rod end boots twisted so much they rip.... I'm just sick of it. Its the only thing I take my vehicles in for! Seen a guy with a 4ft prybar jammed into the rear of my civic just reefing on it to bend something so the screen goes green..



Really? We could have a wheel alignment/festiva meet! That would be fun.

I have faith that you'll pick it up quickly. It's not as complicated as people think. Your attention to detail and desire to learn are incredible.

Maybe we could combine an alignment seminar with Westiva. I did several alignments at Festiva madness 6.

[Advancedynamix]

What I don't get is how people use a gauge that attaches to the break rotor. I mean when you drop the car everything changes what am I missing here?

Step 1: check camber against wheel or hub with car settled, flat ground, driver in seat and wheel straight. Record camber and find the amount that the camber needs to be adjusted.

Step 2: lift car off ground, take wheel off, let everything settle with steering wheel straight.
Step 3: use magnetic gauge on rotor (placed perfectly vertical on rotor, check several spots) to establish a zero.

Step 4: loosen bolts securing knuckle to strut and use magnetic level gauge to monitor the amount of adjustment being made. When you've adjusted the knuckle the number of degrees that you figured in step 1, lock it down with the knuckle to strut bolts.
Step5: put wheel back on, set car down, settle the suspension and recheck. Make sure steering wheel is straight and driver is in car.
Step 6: Do this to the other side. Then set toe, then recheck and adjust camber if necessary. Re adjust toe if camber was adjusted. Toe is adjusted last, but it may take several times to get both spot on if the alignment was way off to begin with.
It takes me about an hour and a half to get things dialed in on the front after putting coilovers on a car.

[william]

That makes perfect sense. Thanks for clearing that up

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[Advancedynamix]

You're welcome. I can see where that would be confusing. At one point, I had aligned tweak so many times on the same lift, that I knew exactly where to set the camber at full droop to get what I wanted, loaded and on the ground. This requires a really straight chassis and a level lift, but can be done and repeated accurately. As you may imagine, this saved me hours of set up time over the course of a race season.

[ryanprins13]

I have faith that you'll pick it up quickly. It's not as complicated as people think. Your attention to detail and desire to learn are incredible.

Maybe we could combine an alignment seminar with Westiva. I did several alignments at Festiva madness 6.

Thanks. Also thanks for that explanation about how to adjust camber with the tire off!

An alignment seminar at westiva would be awesome! My towing festiva needs to be done by then and hopefully my trailer is ready enough to tow. It wont be finished, but it would be cool to bring there and see how close i got my alignment



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[fastivaca]

....Maybe we could combine an alignment seminar with Westiva....

Does this mean you're thinking of coming to Westiva?

Ian

[Advancedynamix]

I've wanted to come since I found out about it. Hopefully we can get a group to convoy up there.

[ryanprins13]

I've wanted to come since I found out about it. Hopefully we can get a group to convoy up there.

That would be really great!


Bought my first alignment tool. I think ill get a digital one as well just to make sure. Not 100% sure i trust it, lol


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[Advancedynamix]

Those aren't that trustworthy. Do you guys have Home Depot up there? I just use a 6" digital level from Home depot. I place it on a flat spot on the wheel to measure. I have to subtract the number it shows from 90 to get my measurement, but it's pretty accurate. I've checked it against actual Longacre guages and my camber is within a half a degree of what I thought every time.

[ryanprins13]

We do, but home depot usa is different than home depot Canada. I havent found a digital one like you have in the photo yet at box stores. This 6in one your talking about- is it different than the one in your photo? Ill try to call a few real construction tool stores tomorrow. The place i bought this from is good though, you can return anything.

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[Dragonhealer]

Worked at a British car shop for years, the bent wheel problem is ubiquitous. Our method to get an precise spot to measure on the tyre for setting toe is to spin the wheel and spray paint a line on the tread. While the paint is still wet, a spring loaded pointer on a base is pushed up against the wet paint, tire still spinning. This scribes a perfectly true line.
untill I got toe plates I used this method, but not having that beautiful antique tool, I just used a scrap of plywood with a nail hammered through the middle for the scribe. After an accident involving my makeshift tool, I bought the toe plates.

[bhazard]

I see a 10" digital level but not 6"

[bhazard]

http://m.sears.com/craftsman-digital-torpedo-level/p-00948295000P