MPG Cam Results

[1chrisapple]

idc what anyone says the whole deal was supposed to be bolt and go better mpg may have been experimental but it failed enough said

[sketchman]

idc what anyone says the whole deal was supposed to be bolt and go better mpg may have been experimental but it failed enough said

You're still not getting it at all.

The original stated gains were from a bone stock carbed B3. ANYTHING else there were absolutely no guarantees about. When someone else tests this cam the way it's supposed to be used and sees no gains, then I'll question its legitimacy.

Till then it's just speculation.

Nitrofarm, what would you call an adequate test? 2k miles? 3k? Am I supposed to run this for a year before I decide it isn't working? I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense to me. If over 700 miles it shows consistent numbers, why keep going when a direct comparison with the stock piece shows the fuel economy stay where it is?

I'll admit I can't do laboratory tests here, but the real world has spoken, and it says it's time for me to give up on it from what I can decipher. Anyone wants to test it, they're welcome to buy it. Don't know what else to say to be more thorough.

[Team Lightning]

Research me , I am mong the best in my industry, not bragging just stating the facts. Only intended to infuse some modern tech to your application.

Matt: To be fair and give you an honest chance, I HAVE searched your name on various search engines on the Web, Inc google and yahoo. All I can find is a seemlingly new website www.dickspeed.com, your facebook page and an address for your shop. I also found one mention of you on enginebuilders magazine's website in an article. Can you post a few links of your builds/cars built? Most people on here require proof of any claims made but you seem to be given a pass on that. How about a little info on yourself that we can find and verify. Are you gonna be offended because I'm asking for info about you?

[sketchman]

Someone posted an article mentioning him as part of some "automotive round table" at some event. Lemme search.

[Team Lightning]

I think that was the engine builders magazine article I found.

[nitrofarm]

^ I'm not saying the Cam is Good or your findings are Bad. Yes if I were you I'd pull this cam out and put the stock cam back in. :thumbs_up: What I'm trying to get across here is the boys in Japan do their homework.And ANYONE trying to improve on that work better pack a lunch. Thats all-

[sketchman]

I think that was the engine builders magazine article I found.

This one?

http://www.autoracing.com/blog/imis-showcasing-innovations-in-motorsports/

I'm not saying the Cam is Good or your findings are Bad. Yes if I were you I'd pull this cam out and put the stock cam back in. :thumbs_up: What I'm trying to get across here is the boys in Japan do their homework.And ANYONE trying to improve on that work better pack a lunch. Thats all-

Gotcha. Misunderstood you first.

[Team Lightning]

Same event it was linked to engine builders magazine.

[TominMO]

Given that any automotive engine design is a compromise between power and fuel consumption (except racing engines, esp. drag racing), I would imagine that the Mazda engineers didn't design for absolute optimum fuel economy. The engine had to make enough power for the intended market. So there should be some amount of improvement in economy still on the table. It may not be much; what we are trying to determine is how to get at it. Matt's experimental MPG cams are one stab at this. Others might include lean-burn like Honda, aero mods, weight reduction, gearing modification, fuel pressure modification, rolling resistance, etc. There is plenty yet to explore.

In a practical sense, tho, I think that the simplest way to achieve better economy is smaller displacement. There was or still is an 1100cc B motor in overseas markets; less power and better mpg. It would be great to snag one of those motors and experiment with it. But I think the improvement in mileage would be somewhat mitigated by having to run at say 70 mph, because it would be working pretty hard.

[shadetree]

Where is Bert ? ( Why can't he post something that has nothing to do with where the bear shit in the buckwheat )

[TominMO]

Where is Bert ? ( Why can't he post something that has nothing to do with where the bear shit in the buckwheat )

What exactly do you have against William Thomas?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billie_Thomas

[shadetree]

Three point jump shot from the fifty yard line and hit the goalie in the head , everybody yelled fore..
Ever notice how Bert or bobstad post something off the wall and the subject changes .

[Zanzer]

So what I've read between these lines is this- Mazda Engineers in Japan didnt get it quite right and I can fix this myself. (You see this thought process on many Car forums,not just here)
Research,development,time and the equipment necessary to legitimize any mpg findings makes this goal very difficult.
Here is my cynical view on the MPG topic:
Make more power than MAZDA but increase fuel consumption = Easy
Make more power than MAZDA without affecting fuel consumption = Not so easy
Make the same amount of power as MAZDA but improve fuel consumption and not effect drive-ability and the longevity of the engines life = You are Legit

I understand where you're coming from on this, but you also have to look at when this R&D was done. Back when the national speed limit was 55mph and the state of the art was batch fire injection (for a Festiva anyway). Todays technology is light years ahead of the Mazda MECS management system. I've seen many blurbs in more than one technical book where the MECS system is refereed to as a joke and given museum status. One of my favorite quotes about MECS comes from the Charles Probst book "Ford Fuel Injection and Electronic Engine Control" where he's talking about MECS spark timing and says "As of 1993. all MECS ignition systems operate with a distributor; none are DIS. Several operate with with mechanical-advance flyweights and vacuum operated diaphragms! Mazda-speak: "Distributor Mounted Ignition Module with Vacuum Advance" (DMIVA). Forget it - I'm talking primitive electronic ignition as we knew it in 1975". And he's comparing this to EEC-IV which is now a dated system.

So I'm not saying the guys in Japan didn't earn their paychecks, I'm saying they were doing the best with what they had at the time. But in the last 20 years since the last Festiva was sold in the US engine management technology is considerably more advanced than it was then and it's all readily available to the home user. CDI ignition, DIS, full stand alone control with user defined mapping, it's all public domain and all you have to do is click a mouse button and have it delivered to your door. Stuff the Mazda engineers only dreamed of in 1993. It's much like when basic electronic ignition became widely available to the everyday user. How many people do you know who swapped out their points distributors for HEI and Duraspark back in the day when it became status quo at the junkyard?

I don't think we're trying to reinvent the wheel, but there is definitely room for improvement over the factory delivered system.

You're still not getting it at all.



Nitrofarm, what would you call an adequate test? 2k miles? 3k? Am I supposed to run this for a year before I decide it isn't working? I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make sense to me. If over 700 miles it shows consistent numbers, why keep going when a direct comparison with the stock piece shows the fuel economy stay where it is?

I'll admit I can't do laboratory tests here, but the real world has spoken, and it says it's time for me to give up on it from what I can decipher. Anyone wants to test it, they're welcome to buy it. Don't know what else to say to be more thorough.

It only takes 3 data points to form an average, more if you want better resolution. But when time is a constraint and I get numbers with an acceptable standard deviation, I feel confident with 3. Basically, it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.


One of my favorite Sherlock Holmes quotes: "If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, has to be the truth."

And the old standby, Occam's Razor - The simplest answer is often correct.

[scitzz]

I want to say things here, but they belong in the arena, and that is where I posted my response. Those interested who have access, please see this thread:

http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/showthread.php?50667-Ah-ah-ah-Bullshit!

[greywolf200]

I want to say things here, but they belong in the arena, and that is where I posted my response. Those interested who have access, please see this thread:

http://www.fordfestiva.com/forums/sh...h-ah-Bullshit!

:cry_smile:...I can't see it......:cry_smile: