MPG Cam Results

[Chobobulous]

Me neither;(

[sketchman]

X3

Don't really understand what's to be said that could be that "unsavory". Unless there's more colorful "grr it should have worked, daggonnit! daggonn you Matt!". IDK.

[bhazard]

Well tom has his car. Well see what his dyno results say.

[sketchman]

I've PMed an admin for access. What's the deal?

[Team Lightning]

In the arena the language is NOT censured

[sketchman]

Yes, I understand. Just curious what it is that needs to go there concerning this thread.

[scitzz]

Yes, I understand. Just curious what it is that needs to go there concerning this thread.

I needed to be uncensored, also, flaming is allowed in the arena, and someone needs flaming. I am sorry to have distracted from your post. If you want to see it, just PM an admin for access.

Running around outside the asylum again with my tappy talky appy

[sketchman]

I just had a thought. I have a dead carb car sitting in my driveway. The carb is toast, but the rest is there. Now, both systems can adjust to a certain degree right? It's a feedback carb. So what if the difference is not EFI vs FBC, but instead the manifolds? It wouldn't take much to rig up a crude TBI setup with one small TB to simulate the small throats of the stock carb. I even have a set of ITBs that I could use one of for this. It should be even easier and more accurate than using a weber because you still get the adaptability of the EFI but with the fuel/air delivery somewhat similar to a stock carb.

I'm going to get measurements on the stock carb throats, and I will come back to this if no one buys the cam first.

[1chrisapple]

I just had a thought. I have a dead carb car sitting in my driveway. The carb is toast, but the rest is there. Now, both systems can adjust to a certain degree right? It's a feedback carb. So what if the difference is not EFI vs FBC, but instead the manifolds? It wouldn't take much to rig up a crude TBI setup with one small TB to simulate the small throats of the stock carb. I even have a set of ITBs that I could use one of for this. It should be even easier and more accurate than using a weber because you still get the adaptability of the EFI but with the fuel/air delivery somewhat similar to a stock carb.

I'm going to get measurements on the stock carb throats, and I will come back to this if no one buys the cam first.

don't waste your time and effort

[nitrofarm]

I understand where you're coming from on this, but you also have to look at when this R&D was done. Back when the national speed limit was 55mph and the state of the art was batch fire injection (for a Festiva anyway). Todays technology is light years ahead of the Mazda MECS management system. I've seen many blurbs in more than one technical book where the MECS system is refereed to as a joke and given museum status. One of my favorite quotes about MECS comes from the Charles Probst book "Ford Fuel Injection and Electronic Engine Control" where he's talking about MECS spark timing and says "As of 1993. all MECS ignition systems operate with a distributor; none are DIS. Several operate with with mechanical-advance flyweights and vacuum operated diaphragms! Mazda-speak: "Distributor Mounted Ignition Module with Vacuum Advance" (DMIVA). Forget it - I'm talking primitive electronic ignition as we knew it in 1975". And he's comparing this to EEC-IV which is now a dated system.

So I'm not saying the guys in Japan didn't earn their paychecks, I'm saying they were doing the best with what they had at the time. But in the last 20 years since the last Festiva was sold in the US engine management technology is considerably more advanced than it was then and it's all readily available to the home user. CDI ignition, DIS, full stand alone control with user defined mapping, it's all public domain and all you have to do is click a mouse button and have it delivered to your door. Stuff the Mazda engineers only dreamed of in 1993. It's much like when basic electronic ignition became widely available to the everyday user. How many people do you know who swapped out their points distributors for HEI and Duraspark back in the day when it became status quo at the junkyard?

I don't think we're trying to reinvent the wheel, but there is definitely room for improvement over the factory delivered system.




It only takes 3 data points to form an average, more if you want better resolution. But when time is a constraint and I get numbers with an acceptable standard deviation, I feel confident with 3. Basically, it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.


One of my favorite Sherlock Holmes quotes: "If you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, has to be the truth."

And the old standby, Occam's Razor - The simplest answer is often correct.

Mark I truly believe you or someone else could slightly improve on the MPG of a B3 with a standalone system or running a aftermarket Carb. But I would be very skeptical of the results claiming large improvements.Especially on a EFI engine unless I saw documentation. Documentation from a battery of multiple tests, under the EXACT same conditions with the same fuel and mass of fuel. (Correct me if I'm wrong but no one on here is doing any such tests on a B3). And you have to admit, anyone doing these tests wouldn't waste time with the MAZDA engine management.They would utilize a "Stand Alone" system.I have encouraged more than one member to use MS as a tool for stretching fuel mileage on a B3. One of their responses made me chuckle Remember Hypertech chips in the 1980's 5.0 engine-So many of my friends tried those and most had poor results. (Just using them as an example of the complexity of the task.) If we want to really go after a MPG B3, stand alone is the best option.But replacing one of the components in the MAZDA EFI system like the cam. And then expecting the MPG to be better is asking a lot. I obviously wasn't involved in the B3 design, but fuel mileage had to be at the top of the priority list.They sure as heck weren't aiming for Horse Power.SOHC is one clue to that claim.
Make more power than MAZDA but increase fuel consumption = Easy
Make more power than MAZDA without affecting fuel consumption = Not so easy
Make the same amount of power as MAZDA but improve fuel consumption and not effect drive-ability and the longevity of the engines life = You are Legit
If the last of these 3 goals was easily obtainable wouldn't it be the longest thread on this forum?

don't waste your time and effort

A agree,its very easy to get the same or better MPG and better performance with a well tuned carb. If you want to mess with a carb at least get one that you can tune. ie Holly or Weber-

[getnpsi]

this size engine was also sold in parts of the world where cars and output are actually tax differetly. That is why there are so many little B series engines. Mazda did not need to make all of them, they did so to get whole cars sold. Since you can skip shift and feather a b6 to acheive great numbers, ive now decided its the one to have for everyone. Blksedan showed us a b6 head intake and exhaust are all better for power and behavior at low throttle. I also like the mpg minded 1.5 protege. Its 15 years newerr electronics as well. Nitro nailed it i agree in all aspects

[Team Lightning]

Nitrofarm, Mark/Zanzer IS currently working on a project for increasing gas mileage. I'm hoping it will be installed in my silver 90 in January. Another 1.3 that I have is being checked for my car before the mods are installed. We plan to run it totally stock for about 4 weeks for a baseline on mileage, add mod 1. then about 4 weeks later add mod 2. I'm planning to dyno the car in stock form and then after each phase of the mods.

[sketchman]

^This sounds good.

[TominMO]

^^ Yes indeedy! Awaiting results.

[zoom zoom]

Nitrofarm, Mark/Zanzer IS currently working on a project for increasing gas mileage. I'm hoping it will be installed in my silver 90 in January. Another 1.3 that I have is being checked for my car before the mods are installed. We plan to run it totally stock for about 4 weeks for a baseline on mileage, add mod 1. then about 4 weeks later add mod 2. I'm planning to dyno the car in stock form and then after each phase of the mods.

First rule of fight club....?