Minor understeer correction ideas

[Robalan]

Ok so I have noticed that the 121 understeers/pushes through tight corners. It is only slightly but most driving inputs I have tried always seem to fail. I am wishing to remedy this with out too much $$
I'm not sure wether to stiffen (detune) the rear or to try and tune the front to hook up better.
I've recently got new tires (165/65/13), front rims are 10mm wider than rears, I've removed everything from the rear of my car including seat/seat braces relocated my spare tire to just behind the passenger seat.

I am interested in experimenting with the threaded sway bar mod for the trailing beam for starters, aspire rear shocks(iirc the valving is harder???) Lowering the front maybe 10/20mm for weight transfer(not ideal). I can't really think of any other mods that I could do to the front that's within my budget. Let it be known I am not interested in the advanced coil over setup as the roads i am driving are not very well maintained mountain passes, super bumpy and I need the softness to soak up the road and I like to use a bit of body roll between corners. Also it's way out of my budget.
If anyone has any tips I could consider it would be much appreciated


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[firebush357]

I am not expert in handling but from reading on here I would say to throw about 2-3 degrees of Negative Camber on the back wheels to solve that issue.

[Festiver]

Ok so I have noticed that the 121 understeers/pushes through tight corners. It is only slightly but most driving inputs I have tried always seem to fail. I am wishing to remedy this with out too much $$
I'm not sure wether to stiffen (detune) the rear or to try and tune the front to hook up better.
I've recently got new tires (165/65/13), front rims are 10mm wider than rears, I've removed everything from the rear of my car including seat/seat braces relocated my spare tire to just behind the passenger seat.

I am interested in experimenting with the threaded sway bar mod for the trailing beam for starters, aspire rear shocks(iirc the valving is harder???) Lowering the front maybe 10/20mm for weight transfer(not ideal). I can't really think of any other mods that I could do to the front that's within my budget. Let it be known I am not interested in the advanced coil over setup as the roads i am driving are not very well maintained mountain passes, super bumpy and I need the softness to soak up the road and I like to use a bit of body roll between corners. Also it's way out of my budget.
If anyone has any tips I could consider it would be much appreciated


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Like fire bush said try slotting your strut bolt holes for a few degrees of camber also remounting the engine forward 1.5" helps greatly but ultimately if you want a car to attack corners you're going to loose some off-road bump capabilities

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Robalan]

Like fire bush said try slotting your strut bolt holes for a few degrees of camber also remounting the engine forward 1.5" helps greatly but ultimately if you want a car to attack corners you're going to loose some off-road bump capabilities

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

How far should I slot them? Have personally done this modification?
And with moving the engine forward, can I just follow what people have done with the mounts for the b6 swaps?

The roads are Tarmac just super old, patchy and what not. Real fun to drive though, cause the speed limit is 80kmh when you can barely do 60 ahah
I've already lost a fair bit seeing as it's on cut springs (the bloke who owned it before me did that, go easy on me)

I am not expert in handling but from reading on here I would say to throw about 2-3 degrees of Negative Camber on the back wheels to solve that issue.

I've read about that, the washer trick yeah? I haven't seen any photos/how tos of how people have set this up correctly, and I am yet to try and do my own wheel alignment. I've seen the threads for that, but haven't tried. When I got the new tires/LCAs on I had a wheel alignment on the front, they set it at 0.4 neg camber with 0 toe IIRC not very aggressive if I say so myself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Festiver]

How far should I slot them? Have personally done this modification?
And with moving the engine forward, can I just follow what people have done with the mounts for the b6 swaps?

The roads are Tarmac just super old, patchy and what not. Real fun to drive though, cause the speed limit is 80kmh when you can barely do 60 ahah
I've already lost a fair bit seeing as it's on cut springs (the bloke who owned it before me did that, go easy on me)



I've read about that, the washer trick yeah? I haven't seen any photos/how tos of how people have set this up correctly, and I am yet to try and do my own wheel alignment. I've seen the threads for that, but haven't tried. When I got the new tires/LCAs on I had a wheel alignment on the front, they set it at 0.4 neg camber with 0 toe IIRC not very aggressive if I say so myself.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have slotted mine but it's the mk3 golf coils from the advanced so I wouldnt know how far to go on the festiva struts it's something to play around with though and b6 is a bolt up swap so you wouldn't have to change your mounts for that doing the g series trans forces you to forward mount the engine look into those threads and don't worry lol I had cut springs for a long time

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[ryanprins13]

I am not expert in handling but from reading on here I would say to throw about 2-3 degrees of Negative Camber on the back wheels to solve that issue.

^+1 that should help a lot.

Like fire bush said try slotting your strut bolt holes for a few degrees of camber also remounting the engine forward 1.5" helps greatly but ultimately if you want a car to attack corners you're going to loose some off-road bump capabilities

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

^+1 on more Negative camber on the front as well. And the last thing he said.

How far should I slot them? Have personally done this modification?
And with moving the engine forward, can I just follow what people have done with the mounts for the b6 swaps?

The roads are Tarmac just super old, patchy and what not. Real fun to drive though, cause the speed limit is 80kmh when you can barely do 60 ahah
I've already lost a fair bit seeing as it's on cut springs (the bloke who owned it before me did that, go easy on me)



I've read about that, the washer trick yeah? I haven't seen any photos/how tos of how people have set this up correctly, and I am yet to try and do my own wheel alignment. I've seen the threads for that, but haven't tried. When I got the new tires/LCAs on I had a wheel alignment on the front, they set it at 0.4 neg camber with 0 toe IIRC not very aggressive if I say so myself.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fronts? What suspension do you have?
Oem struts with oem cut springs? If so slot the fronts as far as they go. Should end up at -1.5 degrees or so. They need to be even side to side though and to do anything on the rear you need to be able to measure the toe and camber. Tools to do that are about $40-150 AUD.
The wheel alignment you got is quite nice for a regular shop. Normally they wont go that 'agressive'.
I would say no to the washers on the rear. Buy the shims you need. Tells you exactly how to install for the desired camber and toe you want once you have measured your current camber and toe.
You would be looking for these locally. Moog k993-6 or k915 or raybestos 615-1134. Their shims to add -1.5deg to what you have.
I prefer the moog.

Advance suspension just not lowered quite as much would do better on your roads than what you have, but since its out of your price range i would think oem replacement kyb struts, oem front springs and aspire rear springs would do you better than anything cut or stiffer.

Something isnt right with your front causing it to plow before the rear swings, you need to fix the front, not make the rear worse.
Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

[Robalan]

I have slotted mine but it's the mk3 golf coils from the advanced so I wouldnt know how far to go on the festiva struts it's something to play around with though and b6 is a bolt up swap so you wouldn't have to change your mounts for that doing the g series trans forces you to forward mount the engine look into those threads and don't worry lol I had cut springs for a long time

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Oh ok, it's probably much the same with the slotting for extra neg camber. I might start with slotting it 2mm if that's not enough I'll go more.
Also not in the market for an engine swap anytime soon, but would consider moving the stock b3 engine forward if it's not too much fab work. I've only got a gas less mig so it would be a bit sketchy welding crucial components with that aha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Festiver]

Oh ok, it's probably much the same with the slotting for extra neg camber. I might start with slotting it 2mm if that's not enough I'll go more.
Also not in the market for an engine swap anytime soon, but would consider moving the stock b3 engine forward if it's not too much fab work. I've only got a gas less mig so it would be a bit sketchy welding crucial components with that aha


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Haha yeah I made mine with flux core and I don't think im gonna do that again lol but moving the engine forward would give you your desired effect

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Robalan]

^+1 that should help a lot.



^+1 on more Negative camber on the front as well. And the last thing he said.




Fronts? What suspension do you have?
Oem struts with oem cut springs? If so slot the fronts as far as they go. Should end up at -1.5 degrees or so. They need to be even side to side though and to do anything on the rear you need to be able to measure the toe and camber. Tools to do that are about $40-150 AUD.
The wheel alignment you got is quite nice for a regular shop. Normally they wont go that 'agressive'.
I would say no to the washers on the rear. Buy the shims you need. Tells you exactly how to install for the desired camber and toe you want once you have measured your current camber and toe.
You would be looking for these locally. Moog k993-6 or k915 or raybestos 615-1134. Their shims to add -1.5deg to what you have.
I prefer the moog.

Advance suspension just not lowered quite as much would do better on your roads than what you have, but since its out of your price range i would think oem replacement kyb struts, oem front springs and aspire rear springs would do you better than anything cut or stiffer.

Something isnt right with your front causing it to plow before the rear swings, you need to fix the front, not make the rear worse.
Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

Do you mean slotting them here?
I am thinking of slotting it at the top where it mounts to the chassis

Yeah it is all stock except for cut springs, it actually handles surprisingly well.
Would you recommend the aspire oem or just festiva oem struts? Would using the 4 door ones be different? Seeing as down here there are more 4 door festivas than two door chassis getting around.
I am going to do more research into this before doing anything, mostly the diy wheel alignment tools and I'll go to the wreckers and get the aspire rear springs, the local u pull it has like 10 aspires (trios in au) that are all in pretty good condition so I can get them from there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Robalan]

Do you use two of the moog shims to get 3 degrees?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ryanprins13]

Do you mean slotting them here?
I am thinking of slotting it at the top where it mounts to the chassis

Yeah it is all stock except for cut springs, it actually handles surprisingly well.
Would you recommend the aspire oem or just festiva oem struts? Would using the 4 door ones be different? Seeing as down here there are more 4 door festivas than two door chassis getting around.
I am going to do more research into this before doing anything, mostly the diy wheel alignment tools and I'll go to the wreckers and get the aspire rear springs, the local u pull it has like 10 aspires (trios in au) that are all in pretty good condition so I can get them from there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Alignment tools:

https://fordfestiva.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59566

Post #39 shows how i slotted mine.

https://fordfestiva.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59836

Thats the kyb struts. I decided to go with that brand and they dont make aspire rears. I cant comment on weather they work better or not.
Slotting it at the top? You mean the strut mount bolts?

Do you use two of the moog shims to get 3 degrees?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can, people have done that. I plan to only have -1.5.
Buy 6 or 8 shims. Its apparently easy enough to not get right the first time.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk

[Robalan]

I read this in another thread,

More negative camber in the rear seems to really help with the oversteer. The negative camber translates to toe in under compression and toe out under extension. So, when it rolls on to the outside rear, the rear end points to the inside of the corner. Inertia is trying to force the rear out. The more negative camber you have in the back, the more the effects of this can be noticed. I've tested up to -5 degrees and it has gotten better with each increase. I've exceeded the corner speeds that I could achieve with 110hp (catching a Viper ACR on slicks on a 100mph corner) and need more power to corner faster. Back to the turbo concept.

So I think I will hold off on the neg camber in the rear and just go with camber on the front


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sid_RallyX_82]

Understeer on tight turns in these cars is mostly due to camber loss with steering angle which is a result of a low caster/SAI ratio. More negative camber treats a symptom. More negative caster treats the cause of the problem. The thing is, more caster is difficult to gain in these cars. You need to be clever to achieve it

[Dragonhealer]

^ +1
The cut springs in the front are your undoing here, try adding some rubber spring packing in front and raise the front ride hight to gain some more caster, you could also add an extra (large hole) washer at the end of each anti-roll bar to push the LCA further forward.
Gota be creative.

[FestYboy]

That would push the wheel back, (or do nothing at all depending on which side of the LCA you put it) not forward, reducing caster further. To increase caster correctly, you would need to push the sway bar mounts forward.