Engine turns but no start. Symptoms and Solution included (fuel pump)

[walth]

okay so...I got home in the festiva, had NO issues, whatsoever.

parked the car, backed it up, pretty flat ground. packed it

went to start it and sort of mentally heard the car starting so I left off...it was like half started but didn't. so stupidly, I attempted starting it while the engine or whatever was still slowing down and it created a pretty good screeching / squeeling (I'd rather call it yelling but wouldn't make sense) pretty loud nonetheless.

now...after 45+ minutes still nothing. It turns over great and while turning it over it will fire consistently every 5-6 seconds (haven't counted) but I'd say it's almost exactly the same repetition of turning over and then a small fire, dies, turning over, etc.

I also can't smell any gas in the TB or the tailpipe which tells me for some weird reason (even after just driving it home at 7:30 (an hour and a half of sitting?) caused a problem.

[walth]

freak deal...got the car running while I was on the phone with arty...I was even just revving it to 2-3k and everything is great. got out, walked around...it cut off...then now I'm back to "stupid" ... I'll check my shop manual but I doubt I'll be coming to FM4. very sad day...

[Britstiva]

Walth, push come to shove... leave the car and hop in another one and drive on down anyway.

[walth]

I would have loved to of done that...

however,

the truck is out of inspection
the bike is down
the yellow festiva I haven't had time enough to get to
and of course I'm not going to use my wife's car since it's her only "auto" transportation

the truck is scheduled for an inspection this wednesdeay (but I didn't care until now since it's not the dd and I'm not going to drive it out of inspection)
the bike I'm going to work on today and get it going good so I can use that for work, etc since I get around 55-60mpg with that

I'm off to the PNP now.

"i'm at PNP with you guys...in spirit" lol

[iceracerdude]

Sounds like something happened to the timing belt for sure, maybe jumped time.
Easy enough to check right? If that's ok, then we go on from there. But if it is the timing we'll tell you what do do next.

[batstiva]

Any clicking from the front left of the car when you hit the key? The reason I ask is that my 90 went through a phase where it did what you are talking about. Tho, it wasn't as hard to get started as yours. I pulled the links, cleaned and changed them. Started up fine after that. So far so good, but I have done what you did a couple of times since then, kind of halted the start process early, and every once in a while, I'll get that click, and it won't want to start right away. When it fires, it acts like no gas. I think the fuel pump relay is getting jolted, and needs a minute or two to settle down. Never had mine refuse to start for more than a couple of minutes, tho. Yours seems to take longer. Just my .02 tho.

[walth]

I just had a huge post...which got deleted when "the internet wasn't working"

all in all...I can get it to run and run good so those aren't issues. technically. when "the problem persists" I have no idea what the issue is. Tonight I got the car running and then it actually restarted and didn't stall and then I restarted it over and over and it ran.

and thanks to the festiva I missed the biggest meet of the year.

on the flip side...my wife went with me to PNP for 3 hours and didn't really complain until we were working on leaving and I kept "happening to go down the next row" LOL!!

[hotfordcat]

I had the same problem. About every three months or so it would not start. Turned over fine. I did everything you did. Turns out it was the Pos. battery cable. It was corroded down in the insulation where you couldn't see it. Replaced the cable and it starts and runs great.

[walth]

you've had to replace the "+ cable" every 3 months? I'll call a Donald Rumsfeld and say that I know known knowns...I also know there are plenty things I don't know...and also that there's plenty I don't know that I don't know...lol

pretty much, I see you may have fixed your problems. But I haven't done anything and seemingly it's fixed itself. I'm afraid to go anywhere that requires me turning off the car if I'm not planning to be there less than an hour.

I'm tempted to "start the car again half ignited and try starting it again about a second later" and see what's going on if it even happens again...

[bikerdude0269]

you've had to replace the "+ cable" every 3 months? I'll call a Donald Rumsfeld and say that I know known knowns...I also know there are plenty things I don't know...and also that there's plenty I don't know that I don't know...lol

pretty much, I see you may have fixed your problems. But I haven't done anything and seemingly it's fixed itself. I'm afraid to go anywhere that requires me turning off the car if I'm not planning to be there less than an hour.

I'm tempted to "start the car again half ignited and try starting it again about a second later" and see what's going on if it even happens again...

sounds like what mine does it will die but starts right back up instantly. Put dizzy on it, coil, and still does it. It does not do it all the time tho.I do have corrosion on battery cables. Ill clen them tomorrow night. Went to FM4 and never had issue. Got home and it started it again.

[walth]

I don't have any corrosion...I wish I had something that I could just fix and "fix the problem"

just imagine your car stalling (for unknown reason) and when you go to start it the starter spins the motor over just fine, no slippage (this I can't prove but I negat this one later below...lol), no clicks, fires the engine every 6-8 sparks but dies...you'd figure there's an issue. but half an hour later the car starts and runs fine. I've pretty much already went through what has happened several times with mine...and yet, I've driven it to within a few miles for quick errands, no issues. Drove it to work and back yesterday not a problem.

I guess the cylinders could have been flooded...but why? my sucky starting process...yeah, I've never done that on accident/purpose before. could be the case; however, the next morning I had started the car, parked it, turned it off, turned it back on -- result = stall -- started it again and it acted the same as the previous night again.

stuck open injector? if so, it fixed itself?
fuel blockage? I doubt it, since it ran fine later...
no spark? nope, made sure the wires were on tight but had the car running and the non-starting issues after messing with them and it ran fine later

didn't smell gas in the TB or Exhaust either...there was no fuel getting out which leads me to negating the starter.
Starter not turning the engine? I have no idea. It sounded like a normal starting operation and both Nate and Arty can attest to hearing it turning over. It would also do the consistent 5 seconds +/- (but consistently the same heartbeat) for combustion but never actually completely got the car running.

If the starter had been slipping I guess I could see that being the cause of no gas getting dumped out through the exhaust? But if it was slipping...why did it start the car just fine on the phone with arty and then several other times inbetween the same issues and is now starting the car fine.

where is (if there even is one) the fuel pump relay in the festiva's? I figured out which one it is for the aspires (the smaller black one) but I couldn't find it in the dash...

I had just ONE more important thought and I can't figure out what it was...

[JohnGunn]

When faced with a starting problem, your first question should be, "What is causing the problem?" Lack of fuel, lack of spark, insufficient compression, or extremely poor timing?

Since your starting problem is intermittent, you can immediately eliminate the last two potential causes. They don't usually improve by themselves.

Next time it refuses to start, seize the opportunity to find out if the problem is with the ignition or with fuel delivery.

Easiest is to start testing for the lack of fuel. Remove the brake booster hose at the plenum and spray a few seconds of starter fluid into the plenum. Put the hose back on and try and start the car. If it starts your problem is with fuel delivery.

If it doesn't start, that suggests a lack of spark. Test by putting your timing light on the coil-to-distributor-wire and looking at the light as you try and start the car. (I wouldn't look directly into the light.) If the light flashes with some degree of regularity, but the car still refuses to start, you have the beginning of an interesting "Twilight Zone" episode.

Looking forward to learning the results, but betting on ignition problems.

John Gunn
Coronado, CA

[qroger]

I once owned a 1977 Ford LTD. It would start, run fine, then once you got "there", and turned it off, would not start again for 24 hours or until everything cooled off to body temperature. Changed the brain that was bolted to the fender: (Ignition control module I think). Then it worked perfect. Since the electronics on our cars have been evolving for 12 to 15 more years, I would say try swapping in a different ecu and see what that does.
roger

[walth]

so it's done it again. lol. tonight I went and got some starter fluid and some heet. I soaked the snorkel with the starter fluid and the festy started and ran for a good buzz and fizzled out in no time. I knew then it's 100% fuel related.

tomorrow after work, if I have time, I'm going to pull the sending unit and pump and clean the sock filter, etc. weird how it's not had an issue for almost a month though...

I'll post up some pics too if I think of it

[walth]

changed the fuel filter and it's a little dirty but very fluid! so I doubt it was the filter. I'm leaning on it being the pump...

however, I'm tickled that the gas tank is as shiney and clean inside as it is!! the pump is from 98...I figure that's the issue. and the sock looks really clean!

but it's weird, I've been driving without the IAC plugged in for...4-5 months or more...probably since before Ohiostiva...and plugging it in now makes it run up to 1500-2000, lol! after doing everything nate and I started up the festy and it ran great...ran it til it was normal temp. turned it off, he left, I cleaned up. I jumped in to take it for a spin and it stalled and restarted all the fun.

so...I think it's the pump.